No conversation about metaphysics is complete without talking about spirits, ghosts and communication form the "other side". This week, a professional ghost hunter joins us with spine tingling stories of her paranormal investigations. Don't listen to this one in the dark!
The Skeptic Metaphysician
True Tales from a Real Ghost Hunter
"We fear what we don't know. And just because something creeps us out, we're automatically like, oh my God, that must be evil because I feel terrified right now. And that's not always the case, you know, it could just be somebody just popping in and being like, oh, Hey, oh gosh, sorry. I didn't mean to scare you there. And then they leave, but you're sitting there like, oh my God, that was a demon. "
About our Guest:
Cherise Williams, a wife and mama from Ohio is a tarot card reader, paranormal investigator, and witchcraft practitioner.
She's passionate about the paranormal, having studied it for her entire life, and always knew that she wanted to incorporate it into her life and career.
She has 15 years of ghost hunting under her belt, including formal/professional investigating with a team, as well as independent/informal investigations.
She's investigated in every type of location such as abandoned hospitals and homes, hotels, historic buildings, private residences, and cemeteries and considers herself a healthy mix of skeptic and believer.
The Witch's Guide to Ghost Hunting
YouTube: Cherise Williams
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Skeptic Metaphysician Info:
Will: [00:00:00] Karen a conversation about metaphysics just isn't complete without touching on spirits. No, it's not. It's not right. What's another word for spirits ghosts. Yeah. Well, today we're diving into the paranormal side of BeneFIX and chatting with someone who's an expert at ghost hunter. Yeah, she is such an expert that she's actually written a book on a subject it's called the witch's guide to ghost hunting.
That's now available on Amazon and we're going to dive into just how to do it, right, because there is a right and a wrong way to
Karen: do it. And I'm going to have to watch like a little funny movie. Before
Will: man, think you probably will.
Karen: Yes. I believe everything. And
Will: you visualize she's, actually going to talk to us, especially about how to do it.
Right. But also how we can experience our own strange, scary and exciting world of paranormal investigations vehicle.
Will: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the skeptic metaphysicians I'm will. And today's guest has been on the show before, so she's not a stranger to you all, but today we're shifting gears much more deliberately into the paranormal.
Her book is the witch's guide to ghost hunting. And that might bring some questions to mine. Yes, she is a witch, but that's really not what she's here to talk to us about. If you're curious about that, you should go back to our August episode when she was on the show before, when she talked about. Her witchy side.
Instead, I want to introduce Shariece Williams to the show as a ghost hunter Theresa. Thanks [00:02:00] for coming on the show
Cherise Williams: again. Thank you for having me. I'm excited
Will: to be here. so many questions, so many questions. Well, you know what? I can take a back seat to get my coffee and let you do the interview.
Go for it. Karen,
Karen: how brave are you?
Cherise Williams: Um, The most brave, no, I honestly do get scared. Little self promo here. I'm going to be in a documentary that's coming out soon called haunted, Indiana state sanitorium. The doctor informed the doctor, the director, it's a hospital. That's why I said doctor, the director informed me that he included in the film a part where I was like, I'm really kind of nervous to be doing.
And I'm like, oh, great smell. Nobody is going to think that I'm really brave. But the
Will: two words that you said that I just do not put together ever haunted. Sanitarium, no way you can. You put those two together and then run the other direction. I'm about to leave now.[00:03:00]
Cherise Williams: how did you
Karen: decide you wanted to get involved
Cherise Williams: in all of this? Ever since I was a little kid I've loved. Everything's spooky Halloween ghost stories. When I was a little kid, my dad would tell me scary stories that probably a child, my age shouldn't have been hearing, but I could not get enough of it. I loved being creeped out.
So yeah, just my entire life has just been like, I love ghosts. I love creepy things. And when I was a kid, I didn't think that there would be any way that I could do this. You know, the books I was reading, it was always like pair of psychologists over in England, like really doing this like great research.
And I'm like, all right. So maybe I can be a professor one day. Like that's how I can do this in my life. And then enter. Reality television. Do you guys remember the show? Fear on MTV?
Will: I remember that show.
Cherise Williams: I remember I'm like they stole my idea because I always said how I would love to spend the night in a haunted insane asylum or something like that.
Will: I like the show because I liked seeing people's [00:04:00] reactions who were staying in the sanatorium, but never once that I thought I should do that.
Cherise Williams: That's where we differ. I want to be there. Although even to this day, I'm like, man, Like dares that they had them do. Yeah. I wouldn't have lasted just for that reason.
Will: you turn the lights off in there and I'm already done. I'm already gone. You don't need to do any dares.
Cherise Williams: You mean you're not going to invite the spirits to like enter your body and stuff like that
Will: and stuff. Right. Like literally crazy stuff. Isn't that super dangerous. Like truly let's talk seriously.
Cherise Williams: I mean, yeah. Some people will say, oh no, that, you know, it's nothing but no, I think it a hundred percent is serious. And it's something I talk about in my book as well of like setting boundaries and You know, like knowing your energetic limits because yeah, it's completely real things can come home with you.
Things can attach to you, especially if you're like giving the option to like, come on, let's see what you can do. There's plenty of spirits that are like, yeah. I mean, crazy things can [00:05:00] happen.
Will: then let's just talk about the elephant in the room, spirits, ghosts haunted places, that kind of stuff.
Are these really trapped spirits? Are these, like, what, what are they, what, what is, what is a haunting? Exactly.
Cherise Williams: Nobody knows. That's the thing. I mean, we all have our opinions. We all have our ideas. There's some really. good ideas that make sense, like some theories out there that really kind of, from our understanding of.
The world, the universe energetics and everything. That makes sense. But at the end of the day, nobody really knows. So if there's anybody out there, that's like, Nope, this is definitely what a haunting is. Know you're guessing, but you don't know for sure. But I think haunting and ghosts really are such a broad umbrella term because, you know, I always say there's the traditional haunting of it as a trapped spirit and, you know, Maybe he can't move on because they left some unfinished work or they were murdered in some tragic way, murdered in a tragic way.
Any murders tragic, right. At a sanitorium. [00:06:00] But then, I mean, there can just be the hauntings. You walk into like an old abandoned building and there may not be any actual spirits there, but you can kind of just feel the. The memories that took place. There that's a haunting, you can be haunted by your memories and your past.
So there's so many different types of hauntings and types of ghosts. And I mean, some people even think maybe we're communicating with aliens sometimes when we're doing these investigations. So,
Will: wow. Yeah, I've heard, I haven't heard that, but I've heard tapping into different dimensions. I've heard you're reaching back in time or forward in time.
There's different, different thought processes. But. Some of these things could potentially be dangerous in as much that you might bring somebody something back with you or things like that. You've gone to a lot of, some of the most haunted places in the country are these things, these spirits, these NGOs, are they dangerous physically?
Can they harm you physically when you're in those places
Cherise Williams: really rare. I find more of that. Can mess with you emotionally. And I'm not sure if it's necessarily [00:07:00] them making you feel a certain way or it's just yourself, like, picking up on emotions and feelings and kind of reacting to what you're feeling that has happened a lot more than physical stuff, but physical stuff does happen.
I mean, I've been touched, I've had my hair pooled. I've had a scratch on my chest before.
So I mean, yeah, it does happen. It's it's much more rare than. People think but yeah, it can have. when you hear the
Karen: word haunting, and this is just me trying to make myself feel better. Now you go to a happy place. You always I'm associated with negative. I mean, does it necessarily mean a negative thing or does it just mean, could there be a happy ghost
Cherise Williams: there for sure.
Yeah. You know, human nature. We fear what we don't know. And just because something creeps us out, we're automatically like, oh my God, that must be evil because I, I feel terrified right now. And that's not always the case, you know, it could just be. Somebody just popping in and being like, oh, Hey, oh gosh, sorry.
I didn't mean to scare you there. And then they leave, but you're sitting there like, oh my God, that was a demon. You know, or [00:08:00] there are the hauntings because some people are like, well, what about the ones where they're slamming doors? And you know, it just feels angry. Sometimes yeah, it could be a ghost that's angry.
But it could also just be somebody who's very frustrated. They've been trying to communicate to the people in this house they've been trying to reach out. And I mean, think about how you would feel if you're like trying to talk to the people around you and nobody's listening. Eventually, you're going to be like, oh my God, like pay attention to me and like slam a door, like listen.
So a lot of the time that can be what it is.
Will: So then if someone wanted to get involved, when did you, once you experience something like this for themselves, what's the best way to. Approach it, I mean, , should you go to one of these haunted places on your own? Do you need to go with a group? I know Karen won't ever go whether with a group or by herself, but if someone wanted to do it, how could someone
Cherise Williams: get involved?
I would suggest going with a group of people for the first time. And there's pretty much any. And I mean, I can't speak of outside of the country, but pretty much every state has haunted places and you can [00:09:00] look them up and they have Facebook pages or websites and you can reserve a time to investigate and you pay money.
A lot of people are like, why do I have to pay money to investigate? Well, a lot of the time the money is going right back into restoring or preserving the building. So which I love, like how it goes, turning and history. And preservation and everything kind of correlate with each other. But yeah, and you can go and some of the places even have equipment that you can use, or somebody there that can kind of help show you what to do.
But that's the easiest way. Or even if you don't have any money. Go to a cemetery if you want. I mean, really honestly, you could probably try to reach out to a spirit in your own backyard if you want. They're everywhere
Will: attic or basement or garage driveway, or
so we've had people on the show that have talked about the fact that doing these kinds of things on your own could be dangerous. Is there anything that you can do to protect yourself? If you do start to want to try to call the spirits in or something that there's a way to make sure that nothing gets attached to you or nothing?
Does you any
Cherise Williams: harm just really [00:10:00] setting boundaries, those energetic boundaries? I used to.
Will: And that's great, but how do you do that? You just like perfect.
Cherise Williams: Actually. Oh, there you go. But no, it actually does talk about like how to get started ghost hunting and different ways to protect yourself energetically. Or if you do happen to bring something home, how to get rid of that. But it can be just as simple as before you start investigating saying like, nothing is allowed to attach to me.
You're not allowed to follow me. You're not allowed to touch me, mess with me or anything like that. I usually say that whenever I'm leaving an investigation, before I get my car, when I get my car, I usually just say that out loud to like, you're not allowed to follow me. I thought I did when we first
Karen: moved in, because the house that we live in now is from 1920, I think.
And so I came upstairs. I'm like, all right. If you're here, you can stay as long as you're nice. Don't freak me out.
Cherise Williams: Exactly. You gotta just set those boundaries. This
Will: is so just by saying, [00:11:00] Hey, you're not allowed to, they don't. I would think that they're like all, yeah. That sounds like a challenge to me
Cherise Williams: sometimes.
Yes. More often than not. And I don't even know if it's necessarily so much as them respecting that boundary of being like, oh, okay. You said that, so now I'm not gonna mess with you. I think it's more of just putting that energy in that intention around you. So it's almost like creating this energetic bubble around you is that even if they're wanting to connect to you, you've set that energetic boundary, you know, kind of like this bubble protective bubble around you and they can't get through it.
Sometimes they can, I've set those boundaries before and I've had to stop an investigation and go outside actually in the documentary that I'm going to be in. He also informed me that he put this in there and I didn't know he was even filming spoiler alert. I had to go outside. I'm not going to tell you exactly what I did, but I had to go outside and do something to ground myself.
Cause it was, it got pretty intense. But so, yeah, so every now and then you may have to like, stop your investigation and like center yourself and like reset those boundaries. But [00:12:00] intention really goes a long way with ghost hunting.
Karen: Okay. You know, it's so interesting because we've spoken with so many people and we've talked with, you know, mediums and channelers, and they're like, well, you know, you communicate, but none of them had.
Told us what it feels like to communicate. So I'm asking you, what does it feel like when you know, there's a ghost there and it's maybe not someone that you'd necessarily want to invite in, or maybe you do? I don't know, but how do you, how do you know you're communicating? What, how does that feel?
Cherise Williams: I honestly just get excited. Like my heart rate starts going a little bit. One of my intuitive signs, like when. Doing tarot readings or something, and I'm getting intuitive messages. I get like the shivers down my spine. So sometimes that'll happen with. Communicating with the spirit. A lot of little physical sensations.
I get like the ringing in the ear and I'm like, oh, okay. I think there's somebody here. But more often than not. Yeah. It's just, my heart rate goes up a little bit. You kind of get the butterflies in your stomach. You're like, oh my gosh. Like something has changed in the atmosphere here. Yeah.
Occasionally it has a creepy feeling. I usually like the time that I was like, okay, I need to [00:13:00] go outside. That feels more just like tense, like your whole body just tenses up and you're like, something is not right here.
Will: Yikes. is it always spirits of humans? Do you ever come across like animal spirits or anything like that?
Cherise Williams: Yes, I've come across humans, animals. I've had a cat rub up against my leg that wasn't physically there. I've heard cat meals adult. I think that's it. Just cat and dog. And then elementals, I'm pretty sure I've connected with. Earth spirits for lack of a better word as well as extraterrestrials.
So I've connected with a whole wide range of, wow. That's what I think. How,
Karen: what makes you think it was an extra terrestrial? Like how was that experience
Cherise Williams: different? Well, so I was actually doing the SDS method, which is where you put on headphones and you're listening to a spirit box. Cycling through the radio stations and you put on blindfolds.
And the idea is that you listening to the headphones, you can't hear the questions [00:14:00] being asked. And you're just saying the words that you think you're hearing and it removes the bias, hopefully of, you know, cause if you hear a question you may start to listen to the audio, like waiting to hear a specific response.
But if you don't know what questions are being asked, you're just saying what you're hearing. And I was doing that with three other people. So all three of us had headphones on and the rest of the group was asking questions and all three of us under, we all kind of got the impression that it was something out of this world kind of just intuitively that's what we were feeling.
And then the things they were saying, it was almost like if you were having a conversation with somebody that's not from here, like they were trying to use words that they thought that we would understand. And it was just kind of like. It almost was like talking to somebody from a different country who speaks a different language.
It was kind of like that, like you were kind of understanding what each other was saying, but it was also a little difficult. But really it comes down to, I think, intuition, which is so important with ghost hunting, really trusting your intuition as far as who you're talking to and what you're [00:15:00] dealing with.
Will: So you do talk in your book about. How to develop your intuitive senses so that you can use it in a paranormal investigations and things like that. do you suggest someone not like me, for example, I may not have an intuitive bone in my body. so you saying you need to really trust your intuition.
Doesn't help me an awful lot. So should I not do this then? I mean, do you really need to kind of be tuned into your feelings for. Yeah. Well,
Cherise Williams: first of all, you are intuitive. Everybody's intuitive. I always talk about it's like, you know, artists or athletes, some people it's like they were born, they pick up a paint brush and they paint a masterpiece.
And then some people will have to take a bunch of classes and work really hard. And then some people, the best they can do is just paint a stick figure. But no matter what, you can create something, you know, even if it is just that stick figure, it's a masterpiece. Like you can still create something.
And it's the same with intuition. Some people are just naturally born, extremely psychic and intuitive. Other [00:16:00] people really kind of. I have to work on it. So you are intuitive whether you think so or not. But no, they tried the exercises in my book. Maybe will report back to me. But no, you don't need to rely on your intuition for ghost hunting.
You know, for years, I actually kind of tuned my intuition out because I was working with a group who is very focused on just the science. Yeah. Like if the equipment doesn't light up, like we're not counting how you feel in this investigation, because that can't be proven, well, equipment can be kind of faulty too.
So, but yeah, it just, it adds a layer it's, it's extremely helpful. The more you can rely on your intuition and trust that and work with that. I just think it kind of helps create a stronger investigation and connection to the other side.
Will: So I do want to go into some of the most memorable experiences that you've had in your time as a ghost hunter.
But before we do that, I think I'm actually contractually obligated to ask this question.[00:17:00]
Could it not be. Wishful thinking that you think you're feeling something or you think you're hearing something. And I mean, when you go into these places, you're already, you're energy is jazzed, right? You're charged up, you're expecting things. And people, even in that, that show, fear that we were talking about before people saw things or weren't there because they thought they were supposed to, or they thought that were there.
So how do you know for a fact, for sure, how can you convince yourself for sure that these. Are real and not just figments of your imagination, you can't,
Cherise Williams: you can't really, I mean, I just, I mean, I know personally I've seen things and felt things and experience things that I know in my heart of hearts was paranormal and that there wasn't.
A logical explanation for it. And just too much, I mean, there's too many stories, just all from around the world and other people's experiences and stuff for there [00:18:00] not to be something, but yeah. That is something that I talk about also in my book, I keep feeling like I'm saying that in my book. But no about the importance of personal development in regards to ghost hunting, as well as like meditating and knowing how to.
Kind of center yourself and calm yourself down because yeah, when you go somewhere and your emotions are heightened and you're already freaked out, like you can just continually freak yourself out even more. And then you start to think like, everything is a ghost that you're seeing. So it really is important to kind of like, okay, let's breathe for a second.
Like, let's assess what just happened and kind of come at it logically. So trust your intuition, but also trust your logic.
Will: And then what kind of instruments do you use to measure? You talked about the scientific method, the scientific side of this whole thing. Full disclosure. I was part of a ghost hunting group for a very short time and I hated it because I get too freaked out too, too easily, too quickly.
And we had those things where that, [00:19:00] that measured the temperature measured the. Now I don't remember what they're called, but they measure different things. So w what kind of instruments have you used in the past that has helped?
Cherise Williams: It really kind of depends. Cause it seems like different spirits preferred different pieces of equipment.
I do really have good results with that. S just method that I was talking about of listening to the spirit box with headphones that has given some really great results. There's also a piece of equipment called the flux. Works with electromagnetic fields, which I think is what you were talking about.
And there's a green light and a red light on each side. So, you know, you can have the spirit approach it and light it up red for no and green for yes, or something like that. That seems to get a lot of really good results. And then I really like using my tarot cards on investigations. So
Will: you draw your cards on location on that location.
Cherise Williams: I usually do it before the investigation. And then during, and then even afterwards,
Will: what do you use those for? do communicate with the spirits, with the cards, or you just kind of getting a lay of the
Cherise Williams: land? A little bit of both. So before investigations, I'll kind of just, you [00:20:00] know, what is the overall energy of this location?
You know, what is maybe the best way to approach this investigation? To kind of help give me a little bit of a game plan. Okay. What kind of mental state should I be putting myself in or expecting? And then, yeah, while you're there, sometimes it, I don't know if they just don't want to mess with the equipment or it's difficult for them to mess with it, but I find that the tarot cards, cause when you're reading for a living human being, you're connecting to their energy, you're connecting to you know, essentially their spirit and you don't need to have their physical body there to do that.
Like most of my readings I do. Distance readings. So it's the same thing when reading for a spirit, you're just essentially connecting to their energy, to the spirit. And so it's a good way to kind of open up that communication and get more information than you can with just asking like yes or no questions with light up this equipment for this, you can kind of get more of a story of who they were, what they need or what they want.
Will: And we've had someone on the show, who was talking to us about life after death. And he was talking about EVP, electronic voice phenomenon. [00:21:00] And after that show was released, a listener reached out to us and said, Hey, I've got a sample. Cause I had mentioned on that show that I had never, I could never tell some, someone says, oh, they said firecracker.
And I'm saying, I've heard . So I have something that, that could show you. So she sent it to me and darn it. If I still can't hear it. Right. So there must be something inside me that just doesn't allow it to happen. Not share that with me. She's actually coming on the show on Friday and spoiler alert. But anyway,
Karen: so you want me to turn to.
Let's see if I can
Will: hear something
Cherise Williams: that's good that you're not telling her. Cause that's the bias thing that I was talking about with, which is why I like the S just method, because yeah, if somebody says, listen to this EVP, it says firecracker, you're going to try to hear firecracker in it. But yeah, I'm with you.
I I'm very bad at deciphering what UVP say, unless it's like super clear. But, yeah, there's so many times they're like, it [00:22:00] says I like pie and all you're doing, but occasionally, I mean, there have been some really clear responses, especially like I have an EVP of well actually it wasn't even EVP. It was a disembodied voice.
We heard it with our ears of a spirit laughing. So that was pretty creepy. It was like, it was good, your impression, but now I feel stupid.
Will: It was a disembodied laugh. This somebody'd laugh is not a
Karen: creepy dumb. Nevermind.
Cherise Williams: It was crazy. That was one of the most like shocked moments I ever had. I couldn't send it to you after this.
I'd love to hear it. But yeah, most of the time EVP is and like, yeah, there's something there, but I have no idea what it's saying. So I just have to make a
Karen: quick point. Will, by the way, things you didn't tell Karen, you were a part of a ghost hunting team. Every time I turn around, he's like, oh, I worked at an ice cream.
I sang in a parade. I was a shoe shine guy. I mean, you
Cherise Williams: name it random stuff. I've
Will: never been a shoe shine guy and I've never seen a parade. [00:23:00] So
Karen: examples, but you get the point, but always just random stuff. Of course. Now I'm freaked out about ghosts. I can't think of any of them.
Will: Well, then let's talk about some of them.
Hair-raising experiences that you've had. You've gone to, we talked a little bit about it before we started recording some of the most haunted places in the country. And then I'm curious to hear some of your stories, cause I, I do follow you on Instagram and I've seen some of your live events when you were at some of them.
I had to turn them off quickly because I was too freaked out. But you do have them share some, some of the best stories with us.
Cherise Williams: And just real quick to add on to that. Tell
Karen: us, did you go during the day or at night?
Cherise Williams: That'll make a difference for me. Most of the time I do go at night. Although paranormal activity happens at all hours of the day.
Everybody's always like, why do you have to investigate at night? Well, for one it is fun. Like any ghost hunter that tells you, like I'm not doing it just for the fun, like they're lying, no are doing it for the thrill of it. That's part of the reason. But I think the [00:24:00] big reason we do it at night is.
The human world is quiet. The human world is more asleep. So you kind of have that. That falls away and you can kind of focus more on, I think the spirit world that's one of many reasons, but yeah, most of the time it's at night and that's when I think all my creepiest moments have happened. That laugh that I was just telling you about was definitely one of the most startling moments ever.
Our walkie-talkies had been going off randomly the whole night. They would just go off for no reason. We're like, oh my gosh, like what is going on? And in the video, the walkie talkie goes off. And my friend Nat, who I was with, she was like, oh my gosh. And then you hear like somebody that was not one of us laughed.
Like they just thought it was the funniest thing ever. For raked me out. I told everybody to shut up because other people were talking I'm like, shut up, shut up. Did you guys just hear that? So that was really scary, but that's one of those where yeah. I could have let that completely [00:25:00] like freak me out and then just like be out of my mind for the whole night.
I let myself be freaked out for a second. Then I'm like, okay, calm down. That was amazing. That's what we're here for. And obviously, like, I don't think that it was somebody trying to be mean it was somebody that was like, just screwing with us and they're like, ha like, look at them, getting freaked out about the Waukee.
Will: Do you, do you remember Scooby-Doo and shaggy? Yes. That would be mean Karen. I'm not sure. I'm not sure who would be in whose arms more. And she might be carrying me as she runs out the door.
Cherise Williams: But see, that's what you're looking for. When you go on these hunts, did it sound like an adult laugh or could you tell? We were actually in a nursing home at that time and it sounded like an older gentleman and here's, what's crazy. I talked to somebody who used to work at that nursing home. And she said that there was a male patient that was in that hallway and he was like a jokester.
He was a prankster he liked to play around. So apparently he is still there playing. I have [00:26:00] goosebumps everywhere. Nice
Will: It did feel like it got a little cooler in here since we started talking. what can you tell us? This documentary, because it sounds fascinating.
You mentioned it's it what's going to
Cherise Williams: be called it's called haunted, Indiana state sanitorium. And it should be out soon. So follow my social media for updates. But so in July I went to Indiana state sanitorium. That's where we heard the laugh, amazing location. We then went back in November because we couldn't get.
Amazing again. And then I got in touch with a director and he was like, let's do this. So he flew out from California and we spent three days at this location investigating and yeah, this place does not disappoint. I mean, It does have pretty terrible stories and history, which you'll hear about. Like I said, we had a past employee come and she kind of walked through the place.
It was the first time she'd been there [00:27:00] since you worked there. And it was terrible, terrible conditions. So you really hear the, the human side to these locations. You know, it is so easy to go into these places and just get freaked out and like, oh the ghost. But at the root of it, so many of these hauntings are.
Human stories and human emotions. And so that's kind of a big element of this documentary as well as us getting pretty freaked out a few times. I mean, we're all like experienced very brave investigators, but yeah, there were, there were some times that we all were like, what the hell? How old is it? So it was a tuberculosis hospital in the 1920s.
There's only one of those original buildings now. And then I want to say it was the 19th. Fifties, they built a five story like dormitory, basically for people with mental health issues. And then I think it was the eighties. They built the nursing home and the nursing home. They eventually just started letting in elderly people, as well as people who were going through mental health stuff and needed to like [00:28:00] detox from drugs and everything.
So you had this crazy mix of like Alzheimer's patients with, you know, the police would bring. People that they had arrested there to detox. So it's like next door to, yeah, it was, it was a chaotic environment. But it officially shut down. I think it was like 2005. Maybe don't quote me on that. And then yet basically sat empty up until the last.
Will: We're working some watch it.
Cherise Williams: Oh yeah. I don't know yet. It should be coming out soon though. It is in post-production has been in post-production and I've gotten word that it's almost done and I will know where it's going to be released. And when soon
Karen: that's exciting.
Yes. What is the most haunted place in the county?
Cherise Williams: Indiana state sanatorium. I would say, I mean, yeah, I haven't been everywhere, like, you know, to every location. So I don't know. Maybe there is something more haunted out there, but of all the places I've been this place is by far [00:29:00] the most active haunted place ever.
And I've been there. Yeah. Like total of five different nights now, and every single time. And during the day we've investigated during the day and things happened Yeah, every time I've been there, I've, I've seen things. I've heard things. It's, it's a wild looking.
Will: So you say it's very active, the most active that you've seen.
Do you get a feeling whether there's malice there or is it just playful spirits? Cause there's, there's a difference between haunted places in haunted places. You know what I'm saying?
Cherise Williams: Okay. So there's nothing evil there. And this is kind of what I was talking about, just cause the spirit may seem angry or even a little aggressive doesn't mean that they're demonic or evil. And this also goes back to, you know, we need to remember the human side to this. So there is a spirit in the mental health facility, part of the building that he.
Was not a pleasant person when he was [00:30:00] alive, he was violent and aggressive and angry and took it out on the people who lived in the building with him as well as the employees. And he has carried that over with them, into the spirit world. So he's definitely one that we've had to set a lot of boundaries with.
We've even had to remove ourselves from the area because. Pretty aggressive, but again, it's one of those, like, I'm very protective of the spirits at this place. Cause I was one of the first people to get to go investigate here. And so I think that that kind of just, I built a bond with these spirits.
And so I always hope that people, you know, you can be firm and set boundaries without being a jerk. Like, would you treat somebody face to face a living person who has mental health problems? Who yeah. Maybe they're angry and aggressive and mean, but are you. The, you know, verbally abusive to them and things like that.
I would hope not. I mean, you're going to set your boundaries and you're not going to let them hurt you or be mean to you, but it's the same thing with spirits, you know?
Will: You bring up an interesting point [00:31:00] because everybody that we've talked to has said that we're much more than our brains and our thoughts.
And yet you're alluding to the fact that these folk or these spirits might still be. Having some mental challenges after they've passed. That's interesting to me because that they goes, they flies in the face of everything with the everyone's talking about. So, and I think it goes to the question about what are they, right.
Because if it's just energy, that's stuck, then it would make sense. It would just get stuck with that same mental challenge energy in it. But if it is a person that is stuck, that was still exhibiting mental challenges. That makes me a little bit more nervous about life after death, because I don't want to be William now over there.
Cherise Williams: Yeah. Progress. Now you guys are gonna be stuck forever. No, I don't know. I think it depends on. The, the person. And I mean, I [00:32:00] don't, nobody really knows why people stay back. You know, maybe he doesn't even know that he is dead. Maybe he just thinks that he's still. Alive and he's living his life or, you know, you had mentioned the, the different not time zones, different dimensions.
Yeah. Like maybe he, like, we're just connecting to him. He's still alive in, you know, 1963 or whatever. And we're, that's what we're connecting with is him actually alive, but in a different.
Will: No, I knew I was smart, but I didn't realize just how smart. So you just pointed out my answer from an hour ago,
Cherise Williams: you, you knew that we were going to be talking about, look at her,
Will: throw me under the bus. Nice. I
Cherise Williams: know you can't tell
Karen: too many things because you've got this documentary coming out, but can you tell us, you did say you've seen things. You just tell us one of the things. You've seen. And before you answered, by the way, I would like to be stuck with you forever.
Cherise Williams: You mean what I've seen at Indiana state or just what I've seen in general? Just as an example. I, yeah, cause I'm like, I don't know. Now I need to remember like when I was there versus when we filmed I've seen some shadows there.
Karen: a shadow with nothing making the shadow. I don't know.
Cherise Williams: Alright, when's this documentary coming out.
you're going to have to watch a bunch of little kitten videos on YouTube afterwards.
Will: I don't know. Cause you just told her about the cat spirit. You'd run into, that's going to ruin her, you know?
Alright. This documentary, it sounds fascinating. And I can't cannot wait to watch it because I hate scary stuff. And yet I love scary stuff. I mean,
Cherise Williams: and then [00:34:00] apparently I don't know if he's going to get mad at me for saying this. There is something that we captured that we weren't aware of capturing until it was an editing and the footage was being reviewed.
I haven't even seen it yet, but apparently this is something that is. Going to blow your mind when you see it. And I haven't even seen it yet. So
Karen: all the time, it's like they took pictures and look, who's that face in there. You know,
Cherise Williams: I'm very excited to see this documentary as well.
Will: Yeah. I can't wait to see it because, you know, we went to Charleston, South Carolina, not long ago, and we did one of those tours.
Right. And, and of course the guys got these pictures and says, look at this picture and you could tell that this is a spirit child, and now you can plainly see. A, what? It looks like a spirit child sitting next to someone that wasn't supposedly there, but that could be explained by double exposure, photography and things like that.
And you just never know where these ghost hunting things, but video, well, that's [00:35:00] totally different horse of a different color, right. I'm really, really interested to see what that's about, but. I will only want you in bright daylight with 50 of my closest friends
Karen: and the bad about knowing you, because well, if it's from her, it's going to be true. You know, it's not like someone Photoshop at this end, but now like, oh gosh,
Cherise Williams: want to see it? I have to believe it working with this director. Cause that was like the first time I talked to him, that was something that we both talked about.
Not faking anything, you know, like there's no need, like the paranormal is weird enough on its own. And like shocking enough stuff happens. Like there's no need to fake anything or stage anything. You know, we just wanted to capture genuine, real human emotion and spirits, and
Will: right. Have you ever gone someplace that's been built as super haunted and active only to find that it was a dud
Cherise Williams: for you?
I don't want to throw the location [00:36:00] under the bus. If you follow me on social media, I did a top 10 of my most haunted of 20, 20, 1 of the locations I went to. So if you really want to dig, you can figure out what I'm talking about, but, and I'm not saying that this location isn't haunted because I've had enough, like a couple of little things happen there that like, I think that, yeah, there must be something there, but I've been there three different times now.
And every time I went, I was just like this. I don't know what people are talking about because other people are like, this place is so haunted and I'm like, yeah.
Will: So we're going to add direct links to your social media on our show notes. If you're interested in reaching out to Sherry's or to following her on social media, you can always go to skeptic, metaphysician.com go to her episode page, and you will find all the direct links there. So it's kind of an easy one.
Stop into her world, which is super fascinating. Before we go talking about the sanitarian in [00:37:00] Indiana you've talked about having been there several times. Can someone. Show up by themselves in the middle of the night and get into it, how abandoned is it? Do you have to, you mentioned early on about paying to get some of these sites.
Is this something that people can just show up to or is there you've got to go through certain.
Cherise Williams: Yeah. They have a Facebook page and you can book through there. You have to like pick a day on their calendar and. They have different prices for if it's like a week, day or night, they also have like just daytime tours.
So if you guys are ever in Indiana and you just want to do like a daytime tour, you can just walk through the buildings. I mean, cause this place is huge. It's like this gigantic property in the middle of the woods. There's the three huge main buildings. So. You can have a lot of fun exploring there.
You should go. But yeah, you definitely need to, or, you know, you could get in trouble for trespassing.
Will: Gotcha. Yep. Yep. Nighttime, daytime. Anytime. Karen's [00:38:00] not time there
Cherise Williams: no time for Karen.
Will: Well, your book is called again, the witch's guide to ghost hunting. It is available on Amazon right now. So you can actually look for it.
We'll go ahead and add a direct link to that. On Amazon, on our show notes as well. So you can access it easily and quickly. And in the book you could read about all kinds of stuff about paranormal investigation, including combining spiritual tools with electronic equipment, what kind of item, every ghost hunting, which needs in their kit how to cleanse your home from unwanted spirits how to protect yourself and your energy from spirits how to grow your sacred gifts to use them on the investigation.
You she'll give you different spells, like banishing creating protection, ambulance, all that kind of stuff. It's all in the book. So I urge you to go out and check it out because it gotta be absolutely fascinating. Always amazing having you on the show. We could talk about this stuff forever. If it wasn't so scary.
Karen: I'm here. So
Cherise Williams: go [00:39:00] turn all your lights on.
Karen: I love it.
Will: Well, thanks again for coming on our show on the show. And thank you for coming along in this journey of discovery with us listeners, don't forget that you can find us on Facebook and Instagram under at skeptic metaphysician as always, if you know someone that would benefit from hearing the messages we shared on this show or any of our others, I hope you'll consider sharing us with that person.
It may help someone else come to terms with the fact that we're so much more than this three-dimensional body that we inhabit. If you listen to this episode on the radio and you miss something, not to worry all of our shows, including this one can be found on our site, skeptic, metaphysician.com.
And don't forget that you can become a member of the skeptic metaphysician community. They are for free and enjoy added benefits of discounts for services from some of our past guests, as well as a chance to never miss a show immediately once has been. I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as we have it's all for now, but we will see you on the next episode [00:40:00] of the skeptic metaphysicians until then take care.