if you’re tuning into this episode before you listen to the previous one, I could not suggest highly enough that you put this one on pause, and you hit play on the Sleep Paralysis episode, because this one is just a continuation of that conversation with my last guest….Bess. And you may find it helpful to hear the full conversation that leads up to this one.
But Will, you might be saying, I don’t have the patience to listen to the buildup…I want to hear about the astral travel that Bess managed to do! And I would say….fair enough….but at some point you may find that you’ll want to go back and listen to that other one to fill in the gaps of this on. This one IS all about astral projection...but there's so much more to it than just that!
And we don’t just lead up to her travels on the last episode…we dive into the Monroe Institute, The CIA’s Gateway Project and SO MUCH MORE!
Now if you are a regular listener and have already listened to the previous one, you’ll remember that Bess first experienced sleep paralysis, then went on to talk about the great buzzing event, where massive vibrations rocked her repeatedly, along with providing an overall feeling of euphoria…..Gosh there’s so much more to it than just that, but in the interest of time…..let’s just say that when we left off, I had just asked Bess if she could confirm that she had indeed traveled out of her body…..her simple response……. YES.
Let’s pick up the conversation from right there……
Looking for an introductory book on all things metaphysical? Check this one out:
Metaphysics: An Introduction
What IS Sleep Paralysis:
The Monroe Institute:
What Dreams May Come Film
What Dreams May Come Book
Skeptic Metaphysician Info:
Will: Can you confirm that you have traveled outside of your body?
Bess: I can confirm that I've had two experiences that were purposeful where I experienced myself outside my body.
They were not real long, nothing earth shattering. I didn't see the face of God or travel to another dimension yet But yeah, am I, my attempts over the years, I've had two episodes where I was successful, where I reached those really buzzing vibrations, and I can reach those pretty regularly, but this whole lifting yourself out of your body was very challenging for me.
And I mean, there are whole discussions on Reddit, there's all these how to books on how to do it. So this is not something unique to me that, you know, I'm just trying, there are a lot of people that claim, and I believe a lot of them [00:03:00] to have done this and some on a very regular basis. So for me, I reached the internal vibrations.
The really loud buzzing ones were really feels like the surface pounding down on my body. And I thought, okay, this is it. I mean, I'm thinking to myself as I'm feeling the vibrations roll up and down my body, I started thinking, okay, this is it. I'm supposed to lift myself up. And especially just. Well, I didn't just sit up instead.
I almost felt like I was whipping myself out of my body. Like if I was going to be a gymnast doing one of these giant, you know, kind of body waves. And somehow that ended up with me standing right beside the bed.
Will: So you jettisoned yourself out of your body.
Bess: Yeah. Kind of rocked or rolled myself out of the body and I'm standing beside the bed and I'm thinking, oh my God, what do I do now?
And I kind of freaked out. So I walked out of the room into the living room where our great Dane was sleeping on the couch. And I was so excited and I went over and sat down. And of course the dog had no idea. I was there to which my mother said, well, it's [00:04:00] funny. He didn't send you there. And I'm like, why would you think a dog would be able to.
So, yeah, an astral projection. So anyway, but that is, as far as I got before, suddenly I was snapped back into my body. I snapping open, wide awake with my heart going is a zillion miles an hour.
Will: Could this have been just a very lucid, vivid dream?
Bess: You know, it could have, if I had been a little more drowsy when I went into the whole vibrational experience, but I wasn't, I was still very awake when I was meditating.
And going into the vibrations.
Will: When you were sitting next to the dog, you were, you had your full capacities, you were, you were bright eyed, bushy tailed thinking rationally. This wasn't any kind of a theorial. This was real. You, you are 100% sure.
Bess: 100% sure. Absolutely. And then the second time I didn't [00:05:00] exit my body quite the same way.
Instead as I went to kind of roll myself out, I floated up instead of standing right next to my body, I was then kind of flying in the air for lack of a better word. So I kind of zoomed out of my room and into our living room where we have this huge picture window. And I went zooming towards the picture window and suddenly went, oh God, stop.
Because I didn't want to run into, I don't know why, but I wasn't thinking very rationally. I was thinking, oh, I can't hit the picture window. And as soon as I pulled, pulled myself up, I ended up back in the room wide awake with eyes, open heart, pounding a million miles an hour. So those were my, my two experiences.
There are people that claim to have had, you know, far more regular, far more fabulous. Encounters than, than what I had that for me those two were, you know, they were absolutely real enough for me to know. It's true.
Will: Well, if it wasn't, those stories is wild in Woolies stories are great, [00:06:00] but best, I, I know you, right.
So to get this kind of story, to come from someone like you, who has spent the entire podcast explaining a way or trying to find scientific means of explaining some of the things that you've experienced to say to me, on the other side of a microphone, this will was 100% real. That's an as Downing thing for me, because.
Of who I know you to be.
Bess: So now, now you understand why, so I've really only ever talked about this with, with my son, my grandmother sat in who is so sweet and says, oh, that sounds cool. And just kind of ignores me the rest of the time. And then with my, with my husband and with my mom. And they both are very sympathetic.
They both, you know, sit there and listen to me talk. I don't think, I didn't think. Either one of them can truly identify with what I was talking about because I've never had that experience. I mean, it sounds crazy. Thus, they costume me, you know, talk to us all you want, but don't tell this to [00:07:00] anybody else because they're going to think you crazy,
Will: the little white men are coming to gate take you away.
Well, I don't think you're crazy. I don't think listeners will think you're crazy. I, I personally think that a lot of folks are listening to this are going to think, wow, isn't she unbelievably lucky? Because I would
Bess: say unluckiest is a good word because I don't think it's, it's not special and it's not, you know, I mean, I don't know anything more than you or, you know, like I said, I don't think I'm awakened anyway.
I do notice this is real, right. That's the only
Will: thing I know, there's something else that we didn't talk about is the fact that you walk around everyday life kind of in a dreamy kind of disconnected type of, existence is what you talked about it in the document. Right?
Bess: Well, that kind of goes to my butterflies net blissful state that I have all the time.
It constantly reminds me that I've had those experiences that so I'm constantly, I'm still, I'm still to this day, [00:08:00] researching neuroscience, all the science, all the quantum physics, you nailed it with quantum physics. I think that is the key to all of this. So, I mean, it just reminds me too. I mean, it's constantly on my mind.
It is constantly on my mind
so I'm reading through the information on the gateway papers is, you know, there's this document after document, after document, it would take a lifetime to go through, but I did come across one part and I'm going to pull it up where they finally explained the physical vibrations and I sent this to you.
But I'm so excited that somebody had finally explained what it was it
Will: does sound yes. It's, it's due to a change in the spinal fluid.
Bess: Yeah. So the intense buzzing has to do with the spinal fluid. So this is a physical explanation. So when your brain relaxes, so your brainwaves, certain brainwaves yet the alpha beta gamma Delta, and the changes in the frequency or the Hertz.
[00:09:00] So you have a, your gamma frequency is at one Hertz. Your beta frequency is another. When you get into that relaxed, meditative state, you change to get a different Hertz and it sets such a frequency that it actually causes your spinal fluid and they have measured. To go up and down to actually vibrate.
So there is the physical scientific explanation for my vibrations. So that's what I'm looking for. And that makes me think, yes, it's not in my head.
Will: Right. So let me, let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. You're saying that your meditation is changing your vibrational rate of the, of your spinal fluid, which is then causing it to shift up and down in your body causing vibration.
That's the sensation,
Bess: the sensation of vibration. So that explains the buzzing, that felt along the back of my neck, that very first time and how it can go up and down on the body. So, [00:10:00] absolutely.
Will: It's unbelievably freaky and,
We talked a little bit about your mom. And maybe this is nothing. Maybe I'll have to edit this part out.
Bess: This is the perfect time to bring this up.
Will: Okay. All right. So from what you wrote me, it seems that this might, there might be something within a family lineage
Bess: and that occurred to me.
Yeah. Yeah. As I said, my mom and has been said to, you know, talk to us all you want. And, you know, I thought neither one can really relate to what I was talking about, but then we'll, I couldn't believe it. My mother casually in passing one day was talking about, well, you know, I had an out of body experience and I didn't think of it as anything spiritual in my job.
I said, what do you mean you've had an out of body experience now, this woman she's 81 years old. I grew up with her. She has lived with us for years. I mean, I've lived with this woman. Most [00:11:00] of my life. She never said anything like this. And by the way, I come by my, my non-religion truthfully, because she has no belief in afterlife when you're dead, you're dead.
And so it just, it blew my mind when she casually said, well, I've had this out of body experience a what teammate? Explain this. So my mom, when she was first. Sham. My father moved to a rural town in Georgia and he was coaching basketball and she was teaching school and she was driving home from school one day and gotten a single car accident where she was thrown out of the car.
And a car full of high school kids came along, found her and said, oh, we gotta get, you know, coach Harbans by to the hospital. They picked her up, took her to the hospital and she had emergency surgery to remove her spleen because she had internal bleeding. So apparently she awoke. And I'm going to put air quotes that your audience can't see around a woke in the recovery room that she woke to find herself floating above the [00:12:00] bed.
She sees herself there. She sees the two nurses sitting beside, and one nurse is saying to the other, you know, that doesn't look very good. So she had us. Out of body experience. Not obviously she survived, but it blew my mind when she had had this, but it did not affect her profoundly enough to force her enter into that spiritual or religious.
I mean, she's more matter of fact than I am about it's all based in science, but also it did not affect her enough to then be telling anybody, including her children about this experience. I mean, I'm talking we're a year or two in of me talking about my experience as well before she finally brought this up, it was mind boggling.
Will: I can only imagine. I, I think I would have had some more trite words than you had just now, but, so it's interesting because you hear that story about people who have near death experiences. Waking up above their body, looking down at their [00:13:00] bodies shortly hearing the nurses or the doctors in the room saying something about how it's not looking good, but shortly before the tunnel opens up in, they start kind of heading their way.
Yeah. So I don't know, obviously, because I'm asking all these questions, but I don't know if it's the same thing or if it's two separate incidences, maybe an out of the body experience that what you experienced is different. Maybe what she experienced was actually an NDE or near death experience, whereas your yours is more of an astral travel.
I don't know. All I know is that these stories really energize me. I think it's so exciting to know, obviously, between in my conversations with April and my conversation with you, it's showing me that the there's more and more stories that showcase that the consciousness does not live. In our bodies, but rather elsewhere where that is.
I have no idea, but I really
I've. I've spent really my entire life worried about from a very early age death. The, the thought of death to me [00:14:00] was awful. When my grandmother passed away at a very young age of, of, of lung cancer I couldn't understand it all. I knew she was gone. And the thought when I was, I was six years old, seven years old, the thought that my grandmother was no longer here, that she was just never didn't exist anymore, scared to live in Jesus out of me.
Right. So these kinds of stories that help me to put things into perspective are big help. And it's one of the things that April mentioned that they, they do a lot of work with helping people gonna to get over that fear of death. Because when you, when you put two and two together and you realize that your consciousness doesn't cannot live in your body, because of all these different things there, and you couple that with the scientific fact, that energy cannot be destroyed, it can only be transformed.
Yeah. That's as much of a skeptic as I am. I can't help, but come to certain conclusions, would I just I'm looking for is I want the buzzing that you're experiencing. I want [00:15:00] to feel it. I want to touch it. I want to say yes. I want to look at your great Dane in the face and go, ha you're can't tell it I'm here.
Right? I want to feel, I want to experience these things and I just, maybe, because I'm trying so hard, it's not happening for me, your story strikes me in as much that. From my understanding you weren't really trying at all when it first started happening to you.
Bess: No, no. And I think that is just from luck.
So it's not anything special. It's just happens to be luck.
Will: Now I know you say that. And I, I said the same thing. What if it's not? What if it's just the fact that you are a little bit more awakened then than the rest of us? I mean, I meditate every day, this past year I've seen an incredible evolution of my personality over the last year, obviously.
We've all had a lot more time in our hands, right. To do things, but, but it goes so far beyond the experiences that we've had over the past year personal evolutions being forced to face different things about ourselves. So it's forced a lot of [00:16:00] us to be more awakened, but some of us intrinsically have that happened to them without external forces forcing that.
And I, I kinda think that that might be what might have been happening with you.
Bess: You know, we all have to spend a lot of time thinking about ourselves, our mental health during the past year, simply because of the shutdown we've had a lot of time to do so. And you know, there are a lot of ugly things in our country, right.
Social issues, political issues that have really brought out a lot of ugliness. And part of what I struggle with is, you know, how can some people be so good and others appear to be it just period. And can we all be on this earth and have similar experiences yet arrive at such seemingly different points of view and in differing actions?
And for me, I don't know, say I don't like the word awakening, but I do like the word learning.
I actually am a fan of reincarnation, the idea of reincarnation, because.
[00:17:00] That actually makes sense to me. And it was based on something that Bob Monroe said that he said he believe that our experiences here on earth was kind of like a school that we are here to go through the human experience to kind of learn.
And it might take one lifetime, or it might take hundreds of lifetimes. And so that kind of made sense to me that that could explain good and evil. Those whose actions seem to be for the greater good, probably have learned a little bit more you know, how things go wrong when, when evil actions happen.
And it was a good explanation for me, at least for me to make sense of this crazy time by thinking that, you know, those who are evil in the world just haven't yet had that experience to learn. It's going to take them a few more lifetimes. So that kind of translates into this whole idea of awakened. The idea that, you know, I'm now at a point where when I experience things, whether they're really great or they're [00:18:00] really bad, like the passing of my brother, I can kind of.
Since I bet that this is just an experience, it's just the learning experience.
Will: And here I go again, mentioning my favorite book conversations with God when he talks about the fact that there is no evil, there is no evil, there's just actions and consequences. And just because someone does something that they feel is right for them doesn't mean that it's right for you.
And that's exactly as it's supposed to be, because if we did all start from the one and we all are just here to experience everything that we are so that we then can know what we are not that'll make sense. Yeah. It's incredibly exciting when you think of it that way. And I'm on board with let's make that be our reality.
And in speaking with April last week, she mentioned that in her estimations, what, what people see when they're passing is what the universe or [00:19:00] God, or the spirit or whatever feels would be a best, the best transition for you.
Bess: Have you ever read the Tibetan book of the dead? Well,
Will: no, but it's on my list to read it.
Bess: You know, it's a fast thing, right? Because it talks about what happens to the body when you die, you know, which senses you lose first smell, taste. And that hearing is, is one of the last senses to go But the idea behind meditation for that is similar to when I'm meditating, trying to bring on the vibrations, the intense vibrations, the idea is you get so trained with your meditating, that even when you die, you won't lose consciousness.
Will: That's terrifying. That's a terrifying thought. If you be neat, my shark and suddenly you're still, you're still not.
Bess: Or I remember I told you, I said, I'm not scared of death. Just, I don't want, I don't want pain and suffering when I die the form of death, but the idea of [00:20:00] being in control and my consciousness going through that process and then being able to control where it goes after I do like that idea very much.
Will: seen the movie. I'm sure what dreams may come so that that's based off of a Richard Matheson book. Richard Richard Matheson is one of my all-time favorite authors and he's responsible for writing. Most of the original Twilight zone episodes. The man was amazing. Well, he wrote this story, about what there was after death.
And it's beautiful and heartbreaking all at the same time. And it makes so much sense that if whatever we think is waiting for us, I mean, in, in this. Everyone talks about manifestation, right? And thoughts have power and whatever you think about strongly enough will come to pass. We are all creating our own reality.
And what is going on in the world is based on [00:21:00] group decisions, as a group thinks of something, that's what makes things come to pass? Why would it not be the same once we cross?
Bess: Yeah, no, that's a very Buddhist idea of actually the creation of the arts is that we imagined it.
Will: And there's all these thoughts about possibly this being a simulation, maybe we're all just avatars and we're just, plugged in somewhere on a computer and we're just going through something.
Bess: You know, Thomas Campbell actually is that as a huge fan of that, the fact that this is our learning ground and our consciousness is put in this body and we have to have certain parameters, for example, you know, this computer being solid and may not be able to walk through walls that we have to have certain parameters in order to believe it's real in order to then go through our simulated learning.
That actually makes sense to me, you know, science, there's all these science articles coming out now just the last few months that they don't believe consciousness starts in the brain that [00:22:00] arrives from elsewhere. And so that's right up my alley. When it's science saying these things. Versus you know, a spiritual teacher I'm much more apt to, to believe it makes sense of it, but it really aligns with the experiences that I'm having.
Will: Hmm. Wow. I think that you and I could kill a bottle of wine easily talking about these things for hours on end. You have given us a lot to think about, if there's one thing that you would want to make sure that our, our listeners leave with, what would you like that to be?
Bess: I guess one thing I would want listeners to take away from this is that, you know, I mean, it's fine. If you don't believe, if you think I was just dreaming that it was a very real dream that I had when, when I, when I traveled with my body, I mean, that's fine.
But the thing that I would like them to take away is do the research, Google some of this stuff and read the scientific articles that are coming about, about consciousness, not developing in the body, that being from [00:23:00] elsewhere, Google some of the gateway project, read about it and realize that. There are scientific and government industries saying, yeah, this is real.
This is happening. And then I would really encourage you to practice for yourself because I mean, if I could do it, probably anybody could,
Will: I don't know about that because I've been trying for a long time
Bess: and then, and then take comfort in the fact that if you're religious more power to you, I hope, I hope you pray for me.
As well as you will. You know, I never begrudge any, by being religious. I love those people that cling to the things that provide them comfort and that makes sense to them. It just never made sense for me. So fine thing that does make sense for you. Fun thing that does bring you that inner peace to where you can maybe up those hurts to where you do feel those vibrations and that blissful feelings.
Will: It's very well said. I would S follow up by saying Wayne Dyer, one of his 10 spiritual laws or 10 [00:24:00] laws of of inner peace talks about being open to everything and discount nothing. If at the very least, I would think that people who are listening to the show are at the very least open to the possibility of things like this being real.
I like you, I'm not religious at all. I'm spiritual to a certain extent I'm pragmatic, I'm scientific. But more and more I'm finding when I mentioned conversations with God. If you've not read the book, it's not at all a religious tone. I resisted reading it for years because
I don't respond well to organize religion. It's just not my thing. If it's, if like, to your point, like you said, if it's your thing. Excellent. You found your path. That's fantastic. It's not, it's not been mine traditionally. So when I finally picked up the book and started reading it, I realized holy smokes.
My first thought was I wasted so much time, but the new will would say, I wasn't ready for it yet. You pick it up when you're ready, when you're ready for the message, you pick it up. So, [00:25:00] and I know a lot of people that are listening, apply sick and tired of me referencing that book, but it's my Bible for lack of a better word, because it is a transformative work for me. I've just picked up the second book. I've had the first book for decades just. Received the second book I'm third or the fourth chapter in, and I'm finding no way would I have been ready for that book until now?
So it, everything happens at the exact time that it does, but long way to say, thank you, coming on the show and talking about your truth, because at the end of the day, this is your truth. It may not be mine. It may not be someone else's truth, but I salute you for coming on and speaking your truth. And in spite of the nervousness of the worry that people out there might think, you know, they're going to be sending your, the white coats your way.
I'm, I'm thrilled that you are experiencing what you're experiencing. I'm really, really thrilled that you're feeling that feeling of bliss, because that's something that we all looking for. Don't.
Find your way to looking at it as a, as a negative, because [00:26:00] that gift that you're receiving from wherever, from your own higher self or whatever, that's a gift. A lot of us out there are, are actively seeking and you have it. And it is a wonderful gift. I thank you for sharing that with us, because it took a lot of courage and I know that I did so, thank you.
Bess: Thank you for having me on well, and you know, I really love, this is so serious that you are doing. I think I messaged you for the first time I heard about your podcast. I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I've been researching. I've been looking for, like I said, my people and I've been in a lot of different Facebook groups, a lot of different Reddit discussions and was not finding them.
And you have given me an avenue to find and connect with some, some brighter, like, like people who are having similar experiences, even if we are approaching them through different lenses. So I appreciate that. So love this
Will: series. Thank you. Thank you for that. It's, it's been a labor of love for me.
And, and that's the one thing that, that has touched me the most is that everybody that I've [00:27:00] interviewed. Yeah. Everybody, I'm trying to think back if there's anyone who didn't fit into this category, but it's not everybody that I've interviewed has, has proven themselves to be. To your point? My people, my where I live.
There's not a lot of us out here. I know where you live despite more opportunities, but still everyone knows of you know, Florida man is a, is a crazy person down there. And you're right. I encourage you and anyone who is listening to reach out to the people I've spoken to, because those are our people.
And there are more of us out there than, than people give credit for. And I give April, I spoken about her a lot on the show, but it's fairly fresh in my mind. When I brought up the fact that the world is in such a dire dire state in how could we possibly be experiencing this grand awakening that everyone that I'm interviewing is telling me we're undergoing just took her very gently reminding me that it's, it's all in how you.
We're being bombarded by the media who is out for ratings. And the fact [00:28:00] is that if you just stop and look around, notice that there really are a lot more people like us, but like you, who was nervous to come on and share your story. It, we're not, we're not mainstream.
Bess: You know, it's not like I can put a sign on.
It says, Hey guys, I had an out of body experience last night. I mean, that's been part of my frustration is I might have some friends who I actually have similar experiences, but how do I, how do I signal to them without then thinking I'm crazy. You know what I mean? There is a fear factor there because it is such an unusual, unbelievable.
Experience that it is difficult to find my people.
Will: Absolutely. And if you do reach out to try to find those people, sometimes you run into people that aren't really your people, but they desperately want to be. So that's,
Bess: that's the scariest part. Yeah. I found that. I think I relayed that to you in mine, that I went through several different types of groups and I'm like, yeah, they're not my [00:29:00] people there.
Will: Yeah. Well, I, I celebrate the fact that we were able to have this conversation. I had no idea that you to your point had, had undergone these, these experiences. But I'm glad that you did that. You reached out. Let me know. So yeah, we'll definitely have a lot more of these conversations because we need to exchange notes and trade stories because we, We are, we are our people and I knew that from very early on, but it didn't know just how much of our people we are. So, I'm excited so best. Thank you again for sharing your story with us on today's show.
Bess: Well, thank you. Well,
Will: and I want to sincerely thank you listener as well.
Everyone that's listening to this podcast right now, I know that you have lots of content screaming to get your attention. I'm honored that for whatever reason you have chosen to listen to this one. Now this, if this message has touched you or you feel, you know, someone who would benefit from hearing this message.
Today, please feel free to share this podcast with them. If you know, one person just share it with one [00:30:00] person, you might just changed. Change their mind. If you're listening to this today, it's because you were drawn to it for a reason, and I'd very much appreciate it. If you'd help others receive the message as well.
It's by sharing with each other that we make this world a better place as always, please don't forget. You can send me a voice message on speakpipe.com/skeptic metaphysician. I'd love to hear your thoughts, your comments, your questions, your feedback, anything about the show or my guests. And remember that I love sharing people's stories like I just did with Bess.
I would love to share yours. So if you are brave enough to step forward, please feel free to reach out. If you'd like to come on the show, you can join me on Facebook at skeptic metaphysician links to my social media platforms and speak pipe access for all in the show notes as well. Well, that's all for now.
Thanks again for listening in. We'll see you again on the next episode of the skeptic metaphysician until then.