The Atheist’s Guide to Proof of the Afterlife

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,760 WTF just happened. Have you ever found yourself asking yourself that question? Well, 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,880 today's guest has, in fact, she does that on a regular basis while diving into evidence 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:16,480 of the afterlife in psychic mediums as an atheist. If you're one of those questions of 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,120 validity behind life after death claims being thrown around in our space all the time, 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,760 then this is the show for you. Because once she started looking into all the evidence as an 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:31,280 atheist, mind you, she says that she was blown away. You don't want to miss this one 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:37,280 welcome to the skeptic metaphysicians. My name is Will. And I'm Karen. And unlike Molder and 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,680 Scully. Both want to believe. So we've embarked in a journey of discovery. We've talked to people 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,840 deeply entrenched in the spiritual and metaphysical world. We've thrown ourselves into weird and 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,960 wonderful experiences. I even joined a covenant with you. And wait, you joined a covenant? 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,920 Yep. All in the interest of finding something. Anything. 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,240 That will prove that there's something beyond this physical three-dimensional world we all live in. 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,560 This is the skeptic metaphysicians. 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:19,120 Today's story is called The Butterfly. A man found a cocoon from a butterfly. 15 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:26,560 One day a small opening appeared. So he sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as it struggled 16 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:32,960 to force its body through that little hole. Until suddenly it stopped making any progress and looked 17 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:38,640 like it was stuck. So the man decided to help the butterfly took a pair of scissors and 18 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:45,360 sniped off the remaining bit of the cocoon. So the butterfly could then emerge easily. Although we had 19 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:51,840 a swollen body and small shriveled wings. The man didn't think anything of it and sat there waiting 20 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:58,800 for the wings to enlarge to support the butterfly. But that never happened. The butterfly spent the 21 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:06,720 rest of its life unable to fly crawling around with tiny wings in a swollen body. Despite the 22 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:12,080 kind heart of the man, he didn't understand that the restricting cocoon in the struggle needed by 23 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:17,680 the butterfly to get itself through the small opening, we're God's way of forcing fluid from the body 24 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:23,440 of the butterfly into its wings to prepare itself for flying once it was out of the cocoon. 25 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,760 Well the moral of this story fits in so well when it comes to all things spiritual. You see, 26 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:36,640 our struggles in life develop our strengths. Without struggles, we never grow and never get stronger. 27 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:44,240 So it's important for us to tackle challenges on our own and be grateful for them because every challenge 28 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,320 prepares us with the ability to handle the results. 29 00:02:48,320 --> 00:03:00,800 Welcome to the skeptic metaphysicians. Liz Anton began examining evidence of an afterlife and 30 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:07,280 anything paranormal in 2015 following the passing of her father. But what she was still considered herself 31 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,840 skeptical and an atheist, the evidence that she found just blew her away. 32 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:17,360 She's the author of WTF just happened a science-esceptic exploration of grief, healing and evidence 33 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,480 of an afterlife and the host of the podcast of the same name all about the afterlife. 34 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,520 No rule in that show folks just plain talk with you. No I love. Obviously you've noticed it. 35 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:33,360 I am without caring today. Sadly she had a family obligation to attend too so it's just me. But I am super 36 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,600 well accompanied by Elizabeth Anton. Elizabeth, thank you so much for coming on the show. 37 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,120 Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk with you today. 38 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,000 Me too because what you're talking about is right up my alley first and foremost. I know that you say 39 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,880 that you are an atheist. Right. So let's set the table by atheists. You mean you don't believe in anything 40 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,240 or can you quantify that for me? Sure. I guess when I say atheist, I think of atheist as believing 41 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:04,480 and God in religion and I've never seen any evidence of God and I've just I don't think God has anything 42 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:11,280 to do with an afterlife. I think that you are completely separate and I think the alignment that so many 43 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,520 people have to me I respect it. But from a factual perspective it doesn't make any sense. 44 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,360 I'm really curious to hear how you put the two together because like the space that we're into 45 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:28,240 spiritual world that we're both in, it's really tied to a lot about the afterlife. But it talks a lot 46 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,880 about God or the universe or energies or whatever it is. So you don't think there's a, if I'm 47 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,000 correct me from wrong, you don't think that there's a white guy in a robe sitting on a throne in heaven. 48 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,480 Right. So I would find that probably the least likely explanation of everything that could happen. 49 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:50,160 Am I going to say factually? But to me that is I can't think of anything less likely. 50 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,880 All right. So then what and I'm sorry we're deviating a little bit. But then what is your thought? Like 51 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:05,040 how what is God for you if anything? I think I mean I have researched a lot of the studies done 52 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:13,280 on afterlife survival of consciousness, non-local consciousness and I just don't see how from I think 53 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:21,120 it's more of a physics-based answer that in some form that we don't know yet, similar probably to 54 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,400 how the cloud works. I deal with something along the lines of the large catering collider, 55 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,920 significantly more advanced. We'll be able to figure out what the substance is. But that our 56 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:41,520 consciousness is not created by brain, but downloaded by a brain and continues in some form that 57 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:49,680 is much more advanced than some singular moral consciousness that somewhat resembles a human 58 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,840 that a current religion has, I would say, as questionable morals anyway. And that that created 59 00:05:55,840 --> 00:06:03,200 all this. It just seems just irrelevant to the topic. And there's just a ton of data that our 60 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:11,760 consciousness is not local and downloaded. And to me that question has nothing to do with, is there one singular 61 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:18,480 huge consciousness that created it? So it's just... Okay so really I didn't mean to make this into 62 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,960 a conversation about religion or anything like that or the meaning of God. But the question has to be 63 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:30,560 asked, do you then some people believe that maybe we are all parts of God? I don't want to 64 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:37,600 hesitate to do that word in your presence. But when we die, when we pass on, we reconnect, we become one 65 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:44,000 once again. So my question would be first. Two questions. One is that your thought process. And if so, 66 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:51,040 then what is it that we join up with? Okay so first, no my thought process is not that at all. 67 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:56,560 It was just... I'd go into originally my original thought that even got me down this path, 68 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:02,560 obviously aside from grief was at this point I thought consciousness was created by our brain neurons. 69 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:08,480 And this will lead into answering your question. No worries. So if that happened once to create a 70 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:17,040 me or to create my dad, why could it not happen again? Not necessarily me again, not related to karma, 71 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:23,040 but just another set of brain neurons coincidentally creating another human and it would get to be 72 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:29,680 something I would experience. Not as Liz, but just something somebody else is if you got to have the 73 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:35,920 experience of being another person. And to me the only other thought I thought was possible at that point 74 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,080 was complete obliteration. So even though I wouldn't have any memories of my life, it was better 75 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:48,560 than never having an experience of consciousness again. Part two of my thought was, is there any possibility 76 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:55,600 in any way shape or form that some of the memories have carried over? So I googled that. I found researchers 77 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:02,640 at the University of Virginia, Dr. Jim Tucker and his mentor who's sent us past away Dr. Ian Stevenson 78 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,920 factually studying cases of kids with past life memories and getting at-care results after matching 79 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,800 up with data. So my whole approach afterwards I found wind bridge with Dr. Julie Byshal, 80 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,120 more researchers at the University of Virginia, such as Dr. Bruce Grayson, who studied near 81 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:27,920 death experiences and Dr. Echeli and Dr. Emily Teli who also studies medium-shep and significantly 82 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:35,200 others. So I just came from it not as their regard, but is there any data that shows that in some 83 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:45,040 way shape or form we can get information, mediums can get information, that's factual and accurate 84 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:52,000 that they could not know by more meanings such as Google A and Cold Reading and if so, if all of this 85 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:58,400 is happening from accurate medium readings, cases of kids with past life memories that check out 86 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:04,720 near-death experiences, this stuff and occurrences and results are absolutely not explicable 87 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,080 if our consciousness is created by brain neurons and when we die that's it. So what answers does 88 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:18,720 that leave? And there's no answer in the explanation of consciousness created by a brain that could 89 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:24,720 explain for this. I sincerely hope it survival of consciousness. I think that's the most likely 90 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:33,040 explanation and where is it we go? I don't know. I wish I knew. Maybe I'll say it's just this place 91 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:38,800 of complete love. I have personally I don't like the word belief because none of this is based 92 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:45,600 of belief it's based on actual data and some personal experiences I've had such as getting medium readings 93 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,120 as well as some other weird things, but we'll talk about all those but go ahead. 94 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,760 Yeah, yeah. This is just pure data so I don't like to have belief in anything. I'm sure 95 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,480 I'm human we all have beliefs it's impossible to say I don't carry beliefs but I try not to 96 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,040 and so where do we go? So maybe this is my coming in with a little bit of belief. 97 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Mediums say that when we pass away it's all love and then we come here to learn. I have a hard time believing 98 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:17,600 that in this other dimension it's all perfect pure love with the conflict we have here. So I'm guessing 99 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:23,520 they might experience it that way if I could guess and again this isn't data. This is now 100 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:30,240 I am going a little into the belief realm but my guess is they experience that or people experience 101 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:37,600 near-death experiences as all love because like you know let's say you've been traveling for a 102 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,280 month that haven't talked to your parents or your spouse and you reach them you'll call them and 103 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,800 you're like oh my god I love you so much you're not arguing over stupid things or irritated at each other 104 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,440 and are you come back from a you know I'm thinking about like the first time you go to college and you 105 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,560 come home and see your parents like that first day and I'm sure there are exceptions but overall 106 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,320 that for a day you just feel so like the warmth and love so near-death experiences is the very first 107 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:10,960 moment of crossing over. So that's my guess. I can totally see and hear the scientists skeptic 108 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:17,920 still hiding under your words and yet you're trying to in your mind make things make sense from a 109 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,320 pragmatic point of view and I love that because that's been me the entire time. Up until 110 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,360 well this show has changed some things for me let's just put that way but what I find interesting 111 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:35,120 is that there's a thought that science there's no way that science can explain some of these things because 112 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:42,800 our scientific instruments stop just short of being able to measure into this other realm that we 113 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:49,120 apparently go to once we pass over. So really there's no way to truly know what's out there 114 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:55,440 without actually experiencing ourselves and yet it seems that a lot of us who are pragmatic and mindset 115 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:03,360 and scientific and skeptical we tend to try to still wrap it around some form of scientific explanation 116 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:10,400 for something that may or may not have a scientific basis to talk specifically about your love 117 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,360 comment that makes perfect sense right as you come back from a long trip and also you see your family 118 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,360 for the first time and oh my god you reminded of how much you missed them and how much you love them 119 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,680 and then maybe that passes maybe doesn't most of the time it passes a little bit the intensity is 120 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:29,360 not as strong but then there's another school of thought that says that we are love that that is our true 121 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,480 nature we are love so when we pass over we're actually becoming who we truly are which is love 122 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:40,560 at which point then might we experience complete love with abandon well we're out there. 123 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:45,920 I would think it would get boring I do think in one sense and again this is more getting into 124 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:53,440 philosophy than evidence I do think we are in essence love in the sense that's when we thrive 125 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,840 but I don't think I mean we just can't say that's all there is to us it seems like too much 126 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:07,600 wishful thinking because of how there are people who are really cruel people we can't deny that 127 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:13,440 there's conflict so I just where does that come from I don't think I think we'll just be going 128 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,800 against facts to say there's only love is that the ideal is that maybe what our goal is to 129 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:24,960 strive towards yes and I mean I hope we just cross over and there's only love but maybe it's like 130 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,800 30 dimensions down the line because otherwise I don't think like a Hitler or I mean I'll leave 131 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:38,240 politics out of it but I'm gonna be people you know would be here so you know like yeah Hitler serial 132 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,680 killers right right I understand what you're saying and I think we could debate this for a long 133 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:50,240 time because I love it and I love playing devil's advocate very quickly though I will say that could it 134 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:58,720 not be that when we are in that other plane we are perfection right we are love we are goodness in 135 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:04,960 carnit it's the act of coming into the three-dimensional space where we forget our divinity that then we 136 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:11,600 become human and have the foibles that come along with being human from the get there's a school 137 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,080 as thought that says that we are perfect but when we come here become human that's when our foibles take 138 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:25,280 over our emotions are greed right there's no doubt especially in this country that greed is a 139 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,640 runaway problem right now and I think greed is the cause of a lot of our challenges and our 140 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,000 our problems and I think that's because of the human condition when we all just want more and more 141 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:43,440 right that competitive edge we've had since we were keeping right I mean I sincerely hope we just all across 142 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,560 over it it's pure love but I think from what we know with near-death experiences and I think this 143 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,360 would make the most sense is that you go through the life review where you're really accountable 144 00:14:53,360 --> 00:15:01,920 my thought that we and again philosophy not evidence aside from the life for review my thought that it 145 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:08,560 would just were all just so advanced that come here it's kind of like well why come here maybe this is 146 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:15,520 the step working towards that but pure love I mean who wouldn't want that to be true I mean I will be 147 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:23,520 really happy if that's the case my guess is maybe we're much more like much more advanced than 148 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:32,560 what we are here and it's the next step but I still do think there's some form of progress I mean you 149 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,840 look at it two year old and they have a fight and they're screaming at each other and like someone takes 150 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,880 one two-year-olds toy and they throw like sand in the sandbox in the other space and to them 151 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:49,680 grown-ups and again I'm sure there's exceptions of really horrible traumatic homes but overall grown-ups 152 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,920 look like they don't have problems because you never see adults act that way but then there's this 153 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:01,360 whole other slew of problems and when you look back at being too like oh my god I can't believe I was 154 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,480 upset that my friend wanted to play with my teddy bear for two minutes and my parents made me give it 155 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,080 to them for five minutes to learn to share and that was the worst thing that ever happened and you just 156 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,480 have such a perspective but then we have a whole other slew of problems that a two year old 157 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:23,040 wouldn't necessarily understand and we deal with them in a way a two-year-old wouldn't observe and if I 158 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:31,920 to guess it's something like that as you progress but I also think if you just are that and you come here 159 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:39,680 why come here although I yeah I mean I definitely don't think it's like I think eagles more complex 160 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:46,880 than just evil but I do think there are evil energies probably I don't know but I I've heard 161 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:53,200 I'm living it's just love and then only just human that makes things something's horrible I think 162 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,560 we have to look at the facts that there is a lot of horrible and a lot of good and both are true and what 163 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:05,280 is the source we don't we don't know yet but I do think we have an innate drive to move towards 164 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:13,520 love and good I mean feeling anger and hatred and it's a horrible feeling we don't but this would be 165 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,080 this is such a complicated philosophy it's this is all just kind of playing with ideas I can't say 166 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,720 absolutely in this and that's really what we're doing here right where I love the debate yeah 167 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,280 over dinner over coffee over drink trying to be devils out of kid trying to come look at it in the 168 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,920 philosophical point of view from different perspectives is all great but I do want to talk 169 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:40,320 specifically about you and how you got into this space because the death of a loved one is always 170 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,800 incredibly traumatic and some people handle it in different ways you ran in the direction of 171 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:54,640 is their life after death because I assume you wanted to make contact in some way where others might 172 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:01,520 have just oh well he's gone and moved on the life you dove into it in a very sincere way so I want 173 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:07,920 to hear about that before we move forward yeah there's two tiers I think to that first just the 174 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:17,840 innate like shattering grief and just that moment of desperation actually even before I thought 175 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:23,280 of and found the research of Dr. Jim Tucker my immediate thought was as there a way to turn back time 176 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:32,240 since I started to find you know reading about time Einstein's theory of time relativity and 177 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:39,120 so much of science fiction has ended up coming true is there some scientific way to turn back time 178 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:46,000 one day and like five thousand years someone will know to go back and get my dad at this 179 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:52,000 day when medicine is significantly better and so that was just the very first thought I didn't 180 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:58,720 necessarily think it was practical but it was sort of the only place I knew to go to and so from there I was 181 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:05,920 so fast say by what I discovered about the relativity of time and just our universe is a significantly 182 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:12,640 different than we perceive and then finding the research of Dr. Jim Tucker and it became a combination 183 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:20,880 of this desperation to see my dad again and not just think he was obliterated facing my own mortality 184 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:28,480 and other ones mortality and just this mind-blown fascination like if you have never ever thought something 185 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,880 like an after life as possible aside from my guess why it was very little like my parents told me 186 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,920 something like cute story of habit and I was like you can think of that like Santa Claus and 187 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:45,120 the Easter Bunny pretty much you know that was obviously we tell the child about death and just it was 188 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:53,280 both if this was to be true this was the most remarkable thing I could imagine in terms of happiness I 189 00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:01,360 just it would be unfathomable and it just some existential dread would change and scientifically just 190 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:06,880 the most fascinating thing like think about when you're a child and you have I guess this fantasy of 191 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,960 finding it's hidden door to a whole new secret world it's like this is existing this is the most 192 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,600 amazing scientific breakthrough the only thing that I could imagine equating that would be opening a door 193 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,080 and walking into a room and seeing colors I'd never seen before or finding out you can space travel 194 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:30,640 to a new galaxy with different species not even our solar system like a whole or galaxy a whole 195 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:38,240 new galaxy and just it had that level of fascination as well as you know realistic hope I could see 196 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:44,000 my dad and could continue living myself so that was what just propelled me and propelled me and I can 197 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,680 go more into what I learned and experience if you'd like yeah we definitely going to do that just 198 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:56,000 to clarify your dad passed away from medical complications yes yeah he had a stroke got you yep 199 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,440 when you mentioned someone traveling back in time and getting the medicine he needed to make himself 200 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,480 better I wanted to clarify that I assumed that the way that you researched whether there was life 201 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,080 after death was by reaching out to psychic mediums and things like that to see if you can make contact 202 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:19,200 were you able let's just jump to the spoiler were you able to make contact with your dad I'm pretty sure I did 203 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:27,840 yes and yeah after doing the research it took me reading multiple studies and books and up to 204 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:35,600 quintuple blinded studies on mediumship and taking some classes at the Ryan Education Center all this 205 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:41,360 logical science and reading it reading it before I was like maybe this might sound crazy but maybe I'll 206 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:49,920 go get a medium reading and go to some medium workshops and my very first reading she knew stuff she 207 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,680 could not have known and I hide my identity I wasn't like I am Elizabeth Edden here is my credit card 208 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:02,160 here's my email phone number like he's my birthday yes yes exactly I'm like you're in none of that 209 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:10,800 and she was amazing and I was like what the fuck like I just saw someone in front of my face to find 210 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,880 the laws of the universe it was like I had chills she brought in my dad my grandma my cat I was just like 211 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:23,840 wow amazed and I just remember leaving and turning to my mom who I made come out with me but 212 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,360 she went into a different room she went come in she thinks this is all crazy but I just turned to her and I was like 213 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:36,320 oh my god I think this is real and from there I was just so amazed I'm like I have to see this again so 214 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:42,480 I started getting other medium readings and it was across the board like I had quite a few where I 215 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,480 think they were very honest-hearted but not very accurate I had a couple that I was like hey are 216 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:56,880 completely full of shit and they knew it and I yeah and then I had more that I was just like they 217 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:04,960 could not have known this and it's just it's so profound it's just like yeah like getting or getting to 218 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:12,800 travel intergalactically getting to jump into another dimension of string theory it's just I 219 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,560 wasn't the words for how profound it was yeah no have you had any experience with the organization 220 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,320 that studies your death experiences oh yeah yeah I've read a lot of gone to some of their 221 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:31,120 zoom talks especially when we were all in quarantine I think really highly of them. Mm great so 222 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,920 because there's a there are a lot of scientifically minded people in that organization which is great then the 223 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,840 other people who are just full on in the woo and I find it I find it really interesting to see the dynamic 224 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:47,920 between that whole group winter in the same room together but how long did it take from the time 225 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,400 that your father passed when you started looking into this in earnest to the moment you got your psychic 226 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:59,680 medium reading that went for a change your whole world how long was that the research? Let's see I got my 227 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,480 first reading she said I had to wait till my dad I was like I didn't tell her it was my dad so my 228 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,880 person I had to wait until they had been gone at least six months that's what this specific woman said 229 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,400 and I was on another woman's waitlist who has a really long waitlist so I ended up going to her 230 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:23,920 workshops but I hadn't gotten a reading with her so this woman I guess let's see it was maybe about eight months 231 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,680 after my research after my research that I got my first reading okay yeah it's interesting six months 232 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,760 I hadn't heard that number I think I heard forty days it has to be as happens but I did here it's 233 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,440 consistent with you have to wait a certain amount of time because I guess the soul has to get acclimated or 234 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,880 whatever it is different medium say different things I have come to think it's just a personal 235 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:51,680 choice of the mediums and each one I'm sure has their own reasons we're saying it but I've heard of 236 00:24:51,680 --> 00:25:00,640 mediums have someone come in that day and you know maybe I mean I'm gonna I don't know I'd have to 237 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,840 respect and ask why each one says what they say but there isn't a consistency in that I have heard 238 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:12,560 some say they will say that because they just having someone that early in grief they don't feel 239 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,520 comfortable with they feel the person needs to process they feel could be dangerous for them psychologically 240 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:24,400 like they're not therapists they feel they don't want to take them on that early but each one so 241 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,160 some of them it's ethics some of them maybe the way their vibrations work they can't connect until 242 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,320 six months I don't specifically know for each of them but they all have different reasons 243 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:40,080 it's interesting to hear you talk because you are very pragmatic in a lot of different ways 244 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,720 and you just talked about different vibrations that that people have that doesn't really fit into that 245 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:50,880 box so I'm fascinated in a time between 2015 that your debt passed and now it's almost 10 years 246 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:58,320 have you seen a progression of change in you as you go are you starting to lean more towards maybe 247 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:05,440 some more woo material or is it you very much sticking to this is scientific and there is nothing 248 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,520 that can do to my mind I guess you can say I'm leaning more towards what people could call 249 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:20,160 woo but with a non-woo up approach I think I guess I'll go to things have happened that would be 250 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:27,040 to find us woo but I think in the end everything science science is just explains the facts of how 251 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:32,720 things work so I think this happened there's a quote actually by Dr Ian Stevenson I'm not saying 252 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:38,640 it's true I'm just saying it happened so these things are happening and I will use I think when you get 253 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,360 into woo there's using somewhat of unrelatable words and an acceptance that of just belief and you're 254 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:54,640 not trying to get data so I will say this happened I don't know what to say about it but at this aspect 255 00:26:54,640 --> 00:27:00,000 verified it this was just a weird thing that happened that wasn't verifiable I would like to try to 256 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:07,280 verify it more and putting it all together using factual language like an example just quickly let's say 257 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:14,240 you take an out of body experience and someone goes out and to me the word vibration isn't so woo 258 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:21,440 because it's literally a physical experience and even stringing you talk yeah so when I tried to 259 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,200 do out of body exercises I will feel waves and what is literally vibration so what would be used 260 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,680 to vibration if you took like you stood on like a vibrating plate you know which is what the gym 261 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:38,400 classes I go to and I'll feel them a few feet above my body I can't say I know why I'm doing that so if you 262 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:44,880 take a woo for lack of a better word approach you'd say I rose into the energetic field and I 263 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:53,680 felt like the angels around me and if you're to take a science-based approach I say I felt as if there 264 00:27:53,680 --> 00:28:00,640 were waves of vibrations and if the nerves of my body instead of ending at my skin and did a few feet above 265 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,920 and that's just the facts I'm not adding more to it so what's the next step the next step is to try to get 266 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,600 better and see if I can go verify something if it really is out of body can I actually start to get 267 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:19,200 senses and physiological senses like eyesight and smell and some people have and they report back 268 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,360 then with facts that they were able to verify so that is the next step so I just try to report only the 269 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:34,000 facts and not draw conclusions beyond what I can get from actual facts. Makes perfect sense so I 270 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:42,560 got to ask the question have you yourself been able to leave your body? I don't know so I is that 271 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:49,040 we think my body when I feel sensations a few feet above maybe I've had dreams of going to places 272 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:56,240 that were then verified but what is that? Is that leaving my body? Is that remote viewing? 273 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,360 Which I guess I'll be out of body experiences. I'll be ease versus remote viewing could be described as 274 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:08,880 I come over to your place and I say oh you have that blue cup on your table versus work here on video 275 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,960 which would more be remote viewing. Oh I see that blue cup on your table. We don't know how it works. 276 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:24,560 I was I was I out of body was I getting was I remote viewing was I safely reading 277 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:31,120 somebody and then saw what they saw. I don't know but some people will say they've gone out of body and 278 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,720 I will believe them when they have been able to verify where they felt they were out of body they felt 279 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,440 sensations they visited somebody and they came or a place and came back with information about 280 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,320 that person or place and other people have even verified and said oh you know maybe they 281 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,720 visit someone who is a medium and they'll say oh I saw you you were out of body at this time and something 282 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:58,080 corroborates. So then I've got to bring it back to something you said earlier it's fascinating to think about it 283 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:03,360 is it something that someone psychically or whatever ESP wise to let the 284 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:10,880 receive that information from you and then you spit out saying this that whatever could the psychic 285 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:17,920 medium instead of actual having contact with the dear dearly departed dad gotten the information from you 286 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,400 psychically and that's what you heard. That is one of the big questions. I actually Dr. Julie 287 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Baishill I have a few responses to this first of all there's actual studies done by Windbridge to test 288 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:39,360 for just that and they for example one of the ways they do highly blinded readings where the 289 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,880 sitter goes and takes down all the information the sitter's the one who the medium's giving the information to 290 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:53,120 and the sitter doesn't actually know I guess they're called a proxy sitter they actually don't know 291 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,280 who the reading is for it's one of the experimenters out of I don't know what pool or volunteer 292 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:08,400 experimenters and so how could the medium be reading the mind of that sitter so then I mean 293 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,840 it you can look at when bridge for all the details but essentially the person they're giving the information 294 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:18,480 too does not know. Then there's another part where mediums have given me information I thought was wrong 295 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:24,720 and said no and clarified with somebody else one of my breathes was a medium this was early in 296 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,760 our friendships as she didn't know much about me my uncle had recently passed I purposely did not tell her that 297 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:37,520 and she I'd always thought he was over six feet he was under six feet and really angry about it 298 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,440 but I was never told that I didn't even know because I guess he was really angry and he was young and my 299 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,680 parents were older parents so like by the time he was older middle age when I was born he wasn't talking 300 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:52,240 about it anymore but she kept saying he's just under six feet I kept saying no and it was true and that's 301 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,320 not the only bit of information and this has come up repeatedly and research now another part of this is 302 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,840 mediums I've got to trust them at this point once who've passed scientific studies once I know I 303 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,680 mean I wouldn't go on this alone but they say it feels completely different little describe it in different ways 304 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,960 and now there's one medium who even says she see psychic information one she likes these a screen 305 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,360 and see psychic information on the left and medium ship on the right I might have reversed it but 306 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:26,560 she's also studied highly by scientists she's had a brain scan and the brain activity in psychic 307 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:33,360 versus medium shows up differently fascinating that's amazing quick question I do want to talk to you 308 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,080 about the book in the podcast but before we do that a question jumps into my mind because you had a 309 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,880 lot of experience with psychic mediums I know there's an organization out there that certifies mediums 310 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,400 we had him on the show that talk about his organization and he found it which I think is fantastic 311 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,680 and they actually have a website where here the mediums that are actually certified as and he 312 00:32:53,680 --> 00:33:01,760 has to be 100% they can't have a single thing in correct that's not true actually yeah so I'm very 313 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,360 bald of forever family foundation bob and his life friend gets broke were my absent mentors is 314 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,960 in friend was just the one the hardest things so you knew you knew fanon I knew her very well 315 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,920 she was like oh that's amazing because when we met bob he she had already passed 316 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,920 yeah yeah yeah Fran is like I feel yeah she was probably one of the most important people in my life 317 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,520 the past few years so yeah sign up for him very very well and I was only the person they have to be 318 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:35,120 100% accurate that's not that's not the case that is not the case no medium is 100% accurate they have to 319 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:42,240 be significantly accurate beyond the odds of chance so for example let's say I'll take a random person 320 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:51,920 let's say they lost their grandmother Sarah who so medium might sit there and say an S name like 321 00:33:51,920 --> 00:34:00,800 Sarah Sarah I'm getting a grandmother energy on your mother's side she died at 70 she was a 322 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:09,920 high school teacher had two children and she rode horses and that's really significant let's say she 323 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:16,320 was not a high school teacher and that was wrong let's say she did not ride horses but the rest is really 324 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:23,600 impressive so that would still be a medium who passed okay and well then I apologize to all those 325 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,200 taking me to what called a fraud in my mind when they were wrong with one thing sorry about that right 326 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,800 but if they're getting most wrong or if mediums are getting everything right but it's general like 327 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,880 you have a 30 year old sitting in front of you and you're like you've had a lot of loss like you 328 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:45,360 don't have any living great grandparents am I right and you know I see that your great grandmother they 329 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,000 sort of were in like that traditional role and your great grandfather was too like the male female 330 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:56,240 they had a lot of children like there's things that just can be very general generation based and some 331 00:34:56,240 --> 00:35:03,760 of those mediums might be frauds they might be really genuine herded and just get very general information 332 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:09,360 and maybe just having pushed themselves to be evidential because maybe their clients have acquired it or maybe 333 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:15,120 they're just things are popping like I've taken mediumship classes and I have sat with people and 334 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:20,400 given them readings and information is coming into my head that's really logical because I'm doing 335 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,760 the assignment I'm told to say what comes into my head and I know it's coming logically and I'm trying 336 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:33,840 to be right to do the assignments because I'm there but and the person depending who some are either maybe 337 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,440 they're very believey or and in the class with them and they're trying to be respectful and they're like 338 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,480 no you're good you're getting everything right I'm like right but of course I am there's just certain 339 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,800 things and you person can to do it right sure so so so then do you think that the only way to make 340 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,840 sure you don't get swindled by a psychic medium who's just foolish is to just not give them any 341 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,000 information at all to be a complete blank slate or there are other ways you can make sure that that doesn't 342 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:04,960 happen to you. I think the this is a fine line and the beginning I was just like give nothing I think 343 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:14,400 I think it's a fine line I think take protocols give you know hide your identity as much as you can 344 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:20,480 and when you're sitting there I mean you have to let them lead a little bit but you can 345 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:27,760 afterwards be like oh that was you're like bullshit but I think if they come in and the first thing they say 346 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:34,240 is yeah it really because it is a fine line because I did it too much of like not say anything in the 347 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:41,040 beginning and scientific studies like again if you read like the research studies like Dr. Julie 348 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:48,800 by actually literally give nothing but you know when you're getting a reading it's a fine line you know 349 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,800 don't give them more than they ask for if they're like I'm getting like a tea named a book oh my god 350 00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:01,280 that's my brother I can't believe he's here and he I miss him so much we were twins don't do that say yes 351 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:07,840 and then if they ask for a little more if they're like I'm just not getting like he and getting he's 352 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,920 your generation but not more than that then you can say okay he was my twin or if you're 353 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:22,880 understanding something and they're not and you can tell like let's say I don't know like you 354 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:31,360 look okay so I'm giving a little my own evidence here but you know okay like like I got a few 355 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:37,520 readings in the beginning where they're like was your dad either hurt enough fire or was he a fireman 356 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,680 who's the fireman why am I hearing fire fire island was really important in our family as a child 357 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,520 so maybe they're seeing a fire because you are working with humans so my dad would be like fire 358 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:55,280 dollar fire island fire so they're just seeing fire because fire island isn't any place they've 359 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:01,840 ever heard of or been let's say so they're saying so he's giving them because it's not like it's not as 360 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,080 good as speaking on the phone it's just not if it was we wouldn't be questioning and studying if 361 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:15,920 there's an afterlife we would know if you've just sit there and are so literal that you say no then you're 362 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,240 not going to get more but if you say in that situation I would say yeah there's something that 363 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,400 would be like not exactly but fire makes sense can you give me a little more and if they're like oh 364 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,400 I can't you know can you give me some more then you can yeah and I'd say fire island is where I 365 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,400 went the summers and maybe suddenly they're like oh my god yes that's it that feels right 366 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,760 and I believe they say that feels right because they're certified by rubber family or wind bridge 367 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,720 and they got quite a bit of information like they got the letter of my dad they don't always 368 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:50,320 get the name sometimes they do they got like aspects of his personality and hobbies and work so I'm like 369 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:57,040 okay I already trust them and so then if I say yes it was fire island my readings can be that much better 370 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,480 because that's all that makes so much sense let's see if we can go further with that and maybe they 371 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,560 got a specific memory from that I think if if you're not doing what I'm doing where it's really about 372 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,240 research and you go to a medium and they're not getting that information and they're trying to 373 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:18,320 ask you a lot of questions because I've experienced this and it's clear they're fishing I will start 374 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,320 to let them lead and go along with it because it helps by research if I really just wanted this reading 375 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,840 for itself and I wasn't getting readings regularly and exploring you have a right to say 376 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,800 don't wait like 40 minutes in but after like five or 10 minutes if everything you're saying is no 377 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,840 an ethical medium will say and this has happened to me I'm so sorry I'm not getting the information 378 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:50,960 that you need I'm not connecting we can end this now and I'll refund you or you can come back in like 379 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:57,760 a month and we'll see if it's better so it's all a balance I think the way to prevent getting 380 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,280 slindled don't give your information upfront don't make it Googleable then once you're there it's really 381 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:10,720 it's refined and just don't pour out just try to say yes no or maybe until there's a reason to say anything 382 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:15,680 more than that and then the other this is just one of the things I mean some people might just be like 383 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:22,000 well obviously but nevertheless people when you're in grief or trauma it brings some work the same 384 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,080 way so there is it is absolutely not on you if this has happened to you in any way but some mediums which 385 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:34,880 had happened to me told me had like bad energy around me and she sold $300 candles that would cure 386 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:42,800 it anyone tries to sell do not do not do not do not that doesn't mean if you're like oh you know I would 387 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,200 love to try to say could reading again then or another reading or something yeah you're going to have to 388 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,280 pay for another service but they don't try to sell up any up sell you have a curse on your family and 389 00:40:53,280 --> 00:41:00,640 I can lift it for $500 yeah exactly exactly so do want to talk to you about your book and your podcast 390 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:06,800 WTF just happened yes was the book first or was the podcast first which came first check it 391 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:14,320 of the egg book came way first the podcast yes the podcast was one of those I'm lonely and 392 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,560 I'm alone in my room and I saw I did a work quarantine I want to talk to work people let me just try 393 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,400 a podcast it'll be fun and then it was so much more fun and I expected it and I taught myself like 394 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,000 I said it and it was just ended up being an addition but now something I definitely want to stick with 395 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,880 we talked of all this time about after life and second mediums is that what you show when you're 396 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:42,320 book is about or is it does it dive a little bit more into other things so my book it's another one 397 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:50,480 is going to be coming out at some point and it soon is so my book which I'll explain why I said that so my 398 00:41:50,480 --> 00:42:01,600 book starts with from when my father first got really sick to about maybe like two to three years 399 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,400 after and all the research I had done in my experiences that it talks some it doesn't start with 400 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,480 mediums it starts with research and the doctor's of talk and it starts with how I'm like oh my god what 401 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:18,240 the fact like they're actually seems to be some evidence but there has to be a catch and it starts with 402 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:24,880 how I keep going further and further with this and then start meeting the people and then so much 403 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,080 has happened since the book ended so much like I've gotten this is just when I first start meeting 404 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,480 the people and I've gotten to know them really well and have participated with them in experiments 405 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,360 and done so much more and that's what I'm going to go into next so this is just the whole journey what the 406 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,240 book just happened of how I went from thinking there was zero chance of it after life to all these 407 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:50,720 very logical reasons to why I completely changed my mind it's actually like light and funny and 408 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:56,800 talks about like all the awkward things that happened along the way like yeah just yes I'm sure 409 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,600 like met the mediums and tried to like see if they were cheating and like when who's one of my best friends 410 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:07,840 now like thought I was like a journalist trying to expose him and just really silly things happened along 411 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,800 so I and friends with big part of the book too so that was in the book then so then you do 412 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,240 suggest you read the book first and then listen to the podcast or can you jump into the podcast 413 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:22,000 without having had to read the book you can jump into the podcast so the podcast is a variety it's 414 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,200 psychic mediums I have like it's paris psychologists like Lloyd Arbock it's a few people who've had 415 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:36,560 personal experiences who verify it it's near death researchers it's um I have someone who's an animal 416 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:43,760 communicator yeah so just it's across the board I even have as someone that person hasn't come out yet 417 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,160 but I'm going to have ones on out of body I'm going to have ones on remote viewing and I'm going to have 418 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,480 a skeptic who's like a professional skeptic who doesn't think any of this is true and we just 419 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,240 get into a really interesting conversation and that's actually one of my favorite episodes not 420 00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:03,200 ready yet but it's just really interesting sounds fascinating I can't believe that the time is flown so 421 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,800 fast if someone wanted to listen to your show or reach out to you we're going to add for sure those 422 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,760 links in our show notes but what's the best way for someone to reach you if they are so inclined 423 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:21,760 you can go to my website which is wTFjusthappened.net because that links to everything you can link to my email 424 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:28,000 you can link to amazon we can buy my book you can link to all the places that you can listen to my podcast 425 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:35,200 or on all the all the usual places you can find me on my social media like Instagram and TikTok a lot of 426 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,000 people reach out to me Instagram you can email me and all that's right on my website for you to find. 427 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,160 Perfect that's awesome this has been so much fun we're definitely going to add those links 428 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,160 I'm going to connect with you offline because any friend of Bob's a friend of mine for sure. 429 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:54,960 Thank you so much. Now we have a lot more skip the minutes of this and coming up so stay with us we'll be right back. 430 00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:15,680 We got what might be our new favorite review this one is from john masina and he gave us a 431 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:22,000 five star review and titled it great show for those both new and old to metaphysics. He goes on to say 432 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:28,080 I'm a UPS driver for work so I've got a lot of podcast listening time because of this I've listened to 433 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:34,400 almost every episode of the show amazing I've believed in many of not all of the modalities spoken about 434 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:40,240 on this podcast for as long as I can remember I felt weird for just having a knowing about certain things 435 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:46,000 and because of my knowing I always understood that the world around me wasn't ready to talk about this stuff yet 436 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:53,040 so I kept it to myself forever the chameleon. I still explored it well into my 20s diving into all 437 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,080 sorts of mind expanding situations and discussions with the few I knew would hear and understand me. 438 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,440 Then I got a big boy job and that part of me stayed on the back burner for a few years. 439 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,080 A few months back I was craving something that could connect to in all levels 440 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:14,880 enter the skeptic metaphysicians after a brief google search for best podcast that discussed metaphysics 441 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:21,440 I found this podcast at the top of the list so naturally I dove in. Fast forward about four months 442 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:27,680 and I only have a couple of episodes left. My only complaint is that there isn't a few hundred more 443 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,920 episodes but I guess I should have piece myself better so that's on me. You guys are great thank you for 444 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:41,600 all the work you do and making me feel normal and folks that's the most important part of this review. 445 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:48,720 This last sentence says thank you for making me feel normal and that's a very powerful statement 446 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:55,360 because a lot of us are feeling this seismic shift that is happening in our world right now 447 00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:01,840 and a lot of us are feeling weird and off and this stuff if it speaks to us if it resonates with us 448 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:08,080 sometimes it makes us feel like we are not right like we're not normal and the fact that we're diving 449 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,600 into these things we're showcasing we're showing that these things these fields are coming in 450 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:21,840 inside of you they're normal we're all real normal people going through an awakening on mass 451 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:30,400 so if you've ever felt abnormal then take it from John this is a show for you because we are normalizing 452 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:38,320 these conversations John thank you thank you so much for sending us this review and for being such an 453 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:44,160 habit listener of our show we can't do it without you and we really appreciate you if you would like 454 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:50,000 to hear your review read on the air just go to skepticmanifusitions.com you can either leave us a review 455 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:56,800 there written or go to apple podcasts and leave us a review written there or if you prefer to 456 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:03,040 speak your mind you can always go to skepticmanifusition.com hit the leave us a voicemail tab and record 457 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:09,120 us a voicemail that we will possibly air on the show thanks again John and thank you for listening to the show 458 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:17,600 thanks for coming along on this journey discovery with us we'd love to continue our conversation 459 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:23,920 with you on our website at skepticmanifusition.com or on Facebook and Instagram under skeptic 460 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:35,840 show do them and us a favor and share the show with them it will help get the word out about us and 461 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,560 it may just change someone's life for the better and if you're listening to this on the radio you 462 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:47,360 missed something well not to worry all of our shows including this one can be found at skepticmanifusition.com 463 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:53,680 we can also watch the videos we even send us an email or voicemail directly from the site we absolutely 464 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,440 love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you I hope you've enjoyed this episode 465 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:04,000 much as we have that all for now we'll see you on the next episode of the skeptic 466 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,480 metaphysicians. Until then take care 467 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:16,480 [Music]