Classic - Proof of Heaven: Life After Death Revealed
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Welcome to Classic Skeptic Metaphysicians! We're re-releasing some of our back catalog so that these gems can be re-discovered!

This week:

What happens to your consciousness when your brain shuts down completely? That's not a philosophical question for Dr. Eben Alexander. it's a medical one. And his answer, backed by peer-reviewed case reports and 25 years as a Harvard-trained neurosurgeon, might be the most scientifically credible challenge to materialist thinking you'll encounter.

Episode Overview
In 2008, Dr. Eben Alexander fell into a week-long coma caused by a rare bacterial meningitis so severe that three separate physicians documented his case in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases. His survival alone was medically unprecedented. What he experienced during that coma, and what he remembered with vivid, crystalline clarity afterward, became the foundation of Proof of Heaven, a #1 New York Times bestseller that has since been translated into over 30 languages. This isn't a conversation about belief. It's a conversation about evidence, and what happens when a world-class neuroscientist can no longer explain away his own experience.

Key Insights
  • Why Dr. Alexander's specific type of brain injury makes his NDE uniquely significant to the scientific community, not just the spiritual one
  • The three distinct realms he traveled through and why each one maps to what researchers have documented across thousands of NDE accounts worldwide
  • What a "life review" actually is. and why it may be the most important concept you've never fully thought through
  • The peer-reviewed scientific resources (including a free essay archive) that challenge the "dying brain hallucination" explanation head-on
  • How he has spent the 15 years since his coma exploring consciousness through meditation, binaural beats, and collaboration with scientists and physicists globally
  • Why 2,700+ documented cases of children's past-life memories at the University of Virginia may be the most overlooked data in consciousness research
  • The connection between near-death experiences, quantum physics, and why materialism is losing scientific ground faster than most people realize
This Episode Is For You If...
You've dismissed NDEs as brain chemistry but found yourself weirdly curious. You want to explore consciousness and the afterlife without surrendering your critical thinking at the door. Or you just read Proof of Heaven and need to talk to someone about it.

Want to Go Deeper?
Listen to the full conversation, then visit skepticmetaphysician.com for links to Dr. Alexander's books, the Bigelow Institute essay archive, Sacred Acoustics, and the University of Virginia research he references. If this episode sparked something for you, share it. someone in your life probably needs to hear it.

The Skeptic Metaphysicians is a spiritual awakening podcast for open-minded thinkers who refuse to check their critical thinking at the door. Each episode explores consciousness expansion, enlightenment, soul purpose, and soul growth through honest, grounded conversation with leading voices in metaphysics, psychic phenomenon, quantum healing, and beyond.

We dive deep into spiritual awakening, ascension, alignment, and the awakening process without the dogma. From mediumship and spirit guides to Arcturian contact, astrology, and the subconscious mind, we explore it all with curiosity, humor, and zero guru worship.

Whether you're in the middle of your own awakening, questioning reality, or just spiritually curious, this is the podcast for seekers and skeptics alike.

Subscribe, Rate & Review!
If you found this episode enlightening, mind-expanding, or even just thought-provoking (see what we did there?), please take a moment to rate and review us. Your feedback helps us bring more transformative guests and topics your way!

Connect with Us: 
🌎 Website – SkepticMetaphysician.com
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WEBVTT

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Karen. Yes, you know how every once in a while

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you read a book that changes everything. Oh yeah, well,

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that is exactly what happened when I read the New

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York Times best seller Proof of Heaven by Evan Alexander. Nice. Now,

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this book is a personal accounting from doctor Alexander of

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his near death experience. What fascinated me the most about

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this book was not just his story, but in fact,

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when you frame it with the knowledge that he is

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a world renowned academic neurosurgeon who could perhaps easily explain

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the experience with scientific studies and facts if the experience

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was not truly real, it kind of puts the story

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into such a bigger light that it was one of

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the first dominoes that helped topple my skeptical mindset. So

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you might be asking yourself, why is Will telling us

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all this? Well, it turns out that on today's episode

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we have the distinct honor and absolute pleasure to get

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the chance to have a conversation with doctor Alexander himself.

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That's right, New York Times best selling author of Proof

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of Heaven and so many other books, is with us

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today on the Skeptic Metaphysicians. My name is Will and

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i'mar and unlike Boulder and Scully, so we've embarked on

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a journey of discovery.

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Welcome to Skeptic Masicians Classic. You are listening to classic

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skeptic metaphysicians. Welcome to our version of a walkdown memory

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Lane as we present classics from the Skeptic Metahysician Library,

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warts and all. You might hear that we sound a

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little different today, hopefully a little better.

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Hopefully a little bit better, but you are definitely a

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little different. Well, it just turns out that thanks to

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a unbelievably kind friend, we have acquired brand new microphones

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on permanent loan. Is that what he said, Karen, That's

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what he said. But we're gonna get it. We're going

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to pay him for it, because I mean, these are

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really nice microphones. These are the mac Daddy microphones.

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They are fantastic.

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And he does happen to work or used to happen

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to work in the audio industry, so he knows what

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he's talking about. So we're excited. We're hoping that we

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sound a little bit better for you, but we would

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love to hear from you whether or not you feel

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that we've got the settings right because on top of

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these microphones coming in, these professional grade microphones, they're a

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lot more complicated than the microphones we used to use.

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So let us know this sounds okay or not because

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there are some adjustments that we can make to make

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it sound better. I think it sounds okay, but I

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could be wrong because I'm not an audio guy.

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Maybe you should sing a little song.

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Oh Danny boy, the pipe.

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Is maybe not?

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Maybe not? Now that did sound very nice.

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Anyway, we wanted to appreciate Jason to the ngh degree

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for being so kind as to send us these microphones,

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because holy smokes, are we excited to use them.

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Yes, thank you so much.

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Jason, thank you so much, and go to Skepticmdivision dot com.

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Send us a voicemail or an email. Let us know

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what do we sound like? Do we sound better? We

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sound not so better. We need to adjust some settings

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in Jason, if you have any suggestions, we are all ears.

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All right, Well, let's get on with the show. This

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week's listeners Corner comes from a very different place than usual. Yes,

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you can always go to our website Skepticmdivsition dot com

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and send us a message straight from there. But we're

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also on social media and this message came to us

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from ebout one two three on Instagram and they were

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talking about the Soul Contract episode with Galiana Awkin, and

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they go on to say, this episode blew me away.

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I purchased a digital reading from Soul Contract practitioner that's

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Galliana in the middle of listening. I felt such a

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deep connection listening to this episode and have been on

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a cloud ever since. I bought Nicholas David Megan's Your

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Soul Contract Decoded kindle book and I could barely put

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it down to sleep last night. I'm so grateful to

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you Will and Karen for bringing such incredibly helpful guests

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on your show, and equally grateful to Gilliana Awkin for

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helping me to make sense of my human life and

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Soul's plan with her digital reading. Her decoding videos are fantastic.

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I planned a book, a one on one reading, and

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a family reading soon. I'm still digesting well. Ebouch, thank

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you so much for sending us this message on Instagram.

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We love hearing from folks that listen to the show,

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and if you are on Instagram or Facebook, please connect

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with us on Skeptic Metaphysician Podcast. We'd love to hear

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your thoughts on any of our episodes or overall the show,

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and if you send us a message, we'll always reply back.

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Hi, I'm will and I'm caring.

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Today's main topic revolves around the reality of life after death.

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Doctor Evan Alexander spent over twenty five years as an

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academic neurosurgeon, including fifteen years at the Brigham and Women's Hospital,

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the Children's Hospital, and Harvard Medical School in Boston. Over

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those years, he personally dealt with hundreds of patients suffering

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from severe alterations in their level of consciousness. So he

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thought he'd had a really good idea of how the

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brain generates consciousness, mind, and spirit. That is until November

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of two thousand and eight, when he was driven into

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a coma by a rare and mysterious bacterial infection, forcing

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him to spend a week in a coma, his prospects

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for survival diminishing rapidly. Now, on the seventh day, to

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the surprise of everyone, he started to awaken with memories

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of a fantastic odyssey deep into another realm, more real

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than this earthly one. His story offers a crucial key

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to the understanding of reality and human consciousness and is

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going to have a major effect on how we all

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you're on this planet, the youth, spirituality, soul, and the

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non material realm. He's the author of Proof of Heaven,

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Neurosurgeon's Journey in to the Afterlife, which debuted as number

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one on the New York Times bestseller List and remained

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in the top ten for over a year. He's since

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been a guest on The Doctor Oz show, Super Soul,

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Sunday with Oprah Winfrey twenty twenty, Good Morning America, Fox

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and Friends, and his story has even been featured on

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the Discovery Channel and the Biography Channel. He's been interviewed

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for over four hundred national and international radio internet programs,

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and his books are available in over forty countries worldwide

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and have been translated into over thirty languages. Welcome to

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the show, Doctor Evan Alexander, Doctor Alexander, I'm not sure

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I have the right words to expres how thrilled we

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are to have you join us on the show today.

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Well, it's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having

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me on.

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Well, thank you for saying that it makes it feel better.

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It makes it feel good now, doctor, when I read

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your book, I was left stunned. I'd been to skeptic

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second guessing everything i'd heard about life after death. Along

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comes a book from a very well respected neurosurgeon that

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claim to have proof of the afterlife, and I was

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thrown for a complete loop. I mean, if anyone is

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going to be able to debunk all the new age

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stuff that's been thrown around these days, it definitely would

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have to be you, right, But your book goes in

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the complete opposite direction. Now, I can't recommend reading your

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book enough to her audience, but for those that may

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not have had a chance to do so, can you

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give us a quick recount of the story?

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Yeah, I think, and very briefly, I should point out

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that the reason my story is so important to the

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scientific community is because it completely violates all the tenets

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of modern neuroscience in its mistaken notions of the brain

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creating consciousness. And that's where I think my story has

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the most value, because really the disease I had of

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severe case of gram negative bacteriumningo andencephalitis is a perfect

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model for human death because of its selective destruction of

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the neocortex the outer surface the brain and the brain stem,

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and that's why to have the experience I had is

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so remarkable. And in fact, there's a medical case report

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on my medical records by three doctors not involved in

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my care but fascinated by my recovery. That's in the

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Journal of Nervous and Middle Diseases in September twenty eighteen,

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and they make two very powerful points to just confirm

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what I did in proof of heaving. One is they

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strengthen my argument that my brain could not have had

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any kind of dream or hallucination, much less the most

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profound experience of my entire lifetime. And how did that happen,

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especially at a time when my brain was demonstrably most

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off line. That's a real And then the second stunning

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kind of feature of the case report is my survival,

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the fact that you know, over two months I ended

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up having a complete return of all my memories and

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then some and then you know, being in the peak

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of health for the next fifteen years, which is what

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I've really witnessed. Now, to get back to your question,

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very briefly explaining my journey, it was in the setting

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of amnesia that's very important to point out because That's

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an atypical feature of my inde that I had no

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memories of Eben Alexander's life, no words, no language, knowledge

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of Earth's humans, ETC's God, And that empty slate was

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very important for the depth of where I was to

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go with all of this. I didn't know that at

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the time, but it only became clear over the months

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and years of follow up after the event. And in fact,

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the essence of my inde was really in three different

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levels of the spiritual realm. The first was what I

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call the earth worm my view, very primitive course on

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responsive realm. If all I'd done was go there and

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come back, I would have had a hellish in the

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ear or distressing Indie. But I went beyond that, as

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most you know ninety five percent of Indie ears do,

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into a realm that is far more beautiful and kind

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of our spiritual home, very comforting. The Gateway Valley is

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what I called that it had a lot of earth

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like features. I had no body awareness. I was a

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speck of awareness on a butterfly wing witnessing all that

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I did see in that realm. But that was a

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reality far more real than anything I was ever used

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to and to kind of put that perspective you need

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to realize that's the realm where, for example, we go

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through life reviews, and a life review is experiencing burd

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to death, everything in between all at once. It's completely

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outside of Earth time, in a more eternal realm. And

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that's what I witnessed, as so many other have in

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that realm thousands of years of history of reports of

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people with life reviews, and the life review is really

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just the gold rule written into the fabric of the universe.

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Treat others as you would like to be treated, because

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a life review is really kind of a review of

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the events of your life, but from the emotional perspective

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of others around you who were impacted by your thoughts

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and action. And the life review also was more of

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a reliving than of a remembering. And it's like this

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disappearance of boundaries itself. Now for me, that was only

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a stepping stone in the journey. The gateway valleys I

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call it because music provided yet another portal, just as

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it had leaning me up from the earth. When I

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view these melodies that came with this portal of light

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that allowed me to ascend to the next level and Likewise,

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in the Gateway Valley, there were angelic choirs and hymns, chants,

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anthems thundering from my awareness that energized yet another portal

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to a higher level. And those who read the book

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Proof of Heaven will realized the importance of the Guardian Angel,

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my spiritual guide on the butterfly Wing, whose identity I

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only discovered four months after my coma, And I won't

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go into that in more detail now, but it's a

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huge part of the story.

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And I think you should definitely read the book to

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find out who that was, because that was a pivotal

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moment in the book and went went, what.

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It's a mind bender, and that is for sure. But

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so it's really a story of love and connection and

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souls and of our interconnectedness. Turns out that the third level,

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the main level that I visited beyond that Gateway Valley,

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that ultra real span, was the core round. That's where

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I realized that oneness with the divine is the very

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source of our conscious awareness, realize that all the dualities

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completely resolve as you get to that core level of oneness.

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And I would cycle through these levels multiple times. All

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that is told in much more to tail, of course,

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in Proof of Heaven and in my many talks about it,

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and in the sequel to that book, which is really

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Living in a Mind for Universe that was co written

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with my partner Karen Newall. But it turns out I

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cycled through those levels as discussed many many a time,

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and then finally there come a point where I could

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no longer conjure the musical melody that led up into

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that gateway valley. To say I was sad at that

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moment would be an understatement. But I also knew I

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could trust in the universe that I would be taken

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care of as I was promised by that beautiful spiritual guide.

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And I knew that was the case. And so it

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turns out then I witnessed thousands of beings going off

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into the distance, heads bowed, murmuring energy, a lot of

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them with holding candles or hens, stuff like that. And

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when I called all that in coming back to this

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world in my early writings in the weeks after return

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from Coma was the power of prayer. That's how I

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saw that was it was drawing me back to this world.

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And the last thing I saw in the COVID experience

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were the six faces. It would kind of bubble up

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out of the muck, say a few words, and disappear again.

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Now I remember those faces right now, vividly, visually, as

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realistically as if it all happened this morning. I mean,

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that's how fresh those memories are. But when I first

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saw them at the end of my seven day coma,

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I didn't know who they were. They were important because

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they were family and friends who were in the ICU

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room the last twenty four hours of coma, as well

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as Susan Rinches, a family friend who channeled to me.

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You know, if you'd asked me about channeling before my coma,

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I would have told you it was nonsense. It's a

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materialist neuroscientist. But she was there as fresh and real

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as the others. So when I was first waking up

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in that first day or two and asking people around me,

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you know who these people were there? One of them

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was Susan Rinches, who was not there, but of course,

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as I said, she channeled to me from one hundred

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and twenty miles away on Thursday and Friday nights nights

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four and five of my coma. Very important to get

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the timing of all that right, that's explain more fully

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in the books. But the reality is that kind of

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channel experience and those faces I saw helped me to

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realize that the vast majority of the coma journey had

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to happen between days one and four of a seven

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day coma, and I go into why that is so important,

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and it's crucial from the scientific interpretation, and you know,

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then I came back to the world and that those faces.

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I ended up being in and out of a thirty

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six hour psychotic, delusional nightmare as I exited the coma journey.

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But that was only even more instructive because it showed

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me that the real, rich spiritual journey that occurred during

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days one through four of coma really happened. It was

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way too real to be real, as I tried to

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explain to people, but to me, initially, my doctors had

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told me that it all had to be a complete

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fake out, that the dying brain plays all kinds of tricks.

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And of course, my own neuroscience knowledge hadn't come back yet.

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I was not yet fully advised and educated about the

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details of my own medical illness, and it was as

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I went through that process in the weeks and months

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or two after coma that I was shocked, you know,

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how could I have had any such experience when my

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brain was so disabled? And how was I doing this

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big recovery? Where was that coming? That was a complete shocker.

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And that's why the medical and scientific communities have been

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my biggest supporters. Oddly, you know, it's not the kind

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of lay public out there, although thousands of people contacted

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me after reading Proof of Heaven because it reminded them

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of a similar experience they had been through, just the

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flavor of discussing those realms how one feels that heart,

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love and that divinity and every bit of that having

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been there. Even though the words may be imperfect, the

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words actually convey enough to others who have been there

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that I heard from thousands of other experiences, many of

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them had never shared their story with anybody, And that,

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of course, is the material of the second book, The

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Map of Heaven, where we really share how common these

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experiences are. But Map of Heaven is not my own

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personal sequel of my journey, But Prove of Heaven and

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then Living in a Mind for Universe are my own

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personal story of my journey of discovery, and that includes

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the fifteen years since my coma working with scientists around

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the world coming to a deeper understanding of the nature

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of consciousness. And it's one that the modern science of

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consciousness ends up supporting the reality of the afterlife and

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even of reincarnation. You'll find that, for example, uvadops dot Org,

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University of Virginia Division or Perceptual Studies have studied more

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than twenty seven hundred cases past life memories and children

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suggests from reincarnation. Seventeen hundred those cases are solved, that is,

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they actually found the person described by the child. And now,

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you know, people hear about this and they may say, well,

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I don't believe in reincarnation. Doesn't really matter what you believe.

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The scientific evidence is there. It's very strong. It's good

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that a big portion of the scientific community takes it seriously.

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And that community includes quantum physicists, includes a lot of

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medical doctors and nurses who have witnessed these things in

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their own patients, and of course many other experiencers and

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students of psychology, parapsychology, you know, non local consciousness, telepathy,

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all these things. Our giant body of evidence that supports

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consciousness is primary in the universe. And that's really where

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our book Living in a Mind for Universe goes. And

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the good reality for all of us is that the

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evidence only leads one way. Will never be making this

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stupid mistake of going backwards into the materialist mindset where

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basically they just said ignore the evidence, debunk it, deny it,

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don't believe it because it doesn't fit our theoretical models

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and materialism. And you know, there's no better way to

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fool yourself as a scientist than to deny and debunk evidence.

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You know, Carl Sagan is famous for saying that scientists

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should never deny evidence because they don't know which evidence

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is worthy of denial and not, so you really need

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to take all the evidence. And that's where scientists like

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those at the University of Virginia and other centers around

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the world have gone far beyond conventional science and coming

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to a deeper understanding of how all this works and

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explaining the reality of the brain mind connection and especially

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the nature of consciousness itself, which seems to be much

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more unified with the brain as a filter that allows

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that primordial, connected, unified mind to come in as a

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little eddy current of an apparent individual conscious but Ultimately

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we find that that is an illusion when we leave

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the physical brain and body at the time of death.

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And that's what near death experiences have been trying to

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tell us for thousands of years about that privacy, consciousness,

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it's interconnectedness, and that it's all going after bodily death.

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Wow, So now I have ten million questions that well

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we've only.

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Got sort of a time camp, so you got to

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littlemit them to like three.

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I kind of want to go back quite a bit

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into this conversation. Well, not the beginning, but sort of

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the beginning. So you're a neurologist, I mean, you're a

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scientific man. You have this experience, and you know that

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putting it out there into that community is really going

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to risk, potentially risk your reputation, your career. How did

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you know this was real? Like what compelled you so

365
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strongly to really get this information out?

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Well, So, as I said, when I was first coming

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out of all this, you know, I was very My

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brain was very addled. My mental function was kind of

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up and down, in and out, and my doctors were

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shocked because they thought I had a ten percent chance

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of survival early in the week, a two percent chance

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of survival by the end of the week, but no

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chance of recovery at that point. That's why they recommended

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taking the office ventilator, stopping all the antibiotics and just

375
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let it, letting me go. And that's when I started

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coming back to this world. And they were surprised and

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then amazed because I started having a full recover, which

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nobody expected, was unprecedented in the medical literature. And you know,

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to me, I was blissfully ignorant of all that had

380
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happened during that week. I was just kind of coming back,

381
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like what are you guys doing here to my family,

382
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you know, and they're like, oh my god, what a

383
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thing to go through, And then here he is coming back.

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Initially it was quite frightening to them because they could

385
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tell that my brain was still very impaired. But literally,

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within a few days that impairment seemed to result, and

387
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I was coming back very strongly. And I think this

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is really where the case has so much power and

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value to the scientific community, because literally, I mean when

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the when the case report was presented, the peer review

391
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editors said, well, this is absurd. There's no case like

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this in the literature of somebody this ill from bactu

393
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of maneago and cephalitis, making them for recovery. So how

394
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do you explain it? And the way the three doctors

395
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explained it is because I had a near death experience.

396
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That's what allows for this kind of recovery. Because they

397
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knew of other cases of miraculous healing and a near

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death experience. And you know, if we paid attention to

399
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miraculous healing through history, we should surely pay attention to

400
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it now. And these are cases medically vetted by the

401
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:49.039
medical profession and then found to be, you know, recoveries

402
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that are inexplicable. So those are will worthy of our attention.

403
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And it turns out the lessons really went about free

404
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will and about love and about connection with you universe

405
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and a sense of purpose. And what it does is

406
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it allows for us to see ourselves with a much

407
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more kind of wholesome and purpose directed in a relationship

408
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with the universe. We're here to serve with love and kindness, compassion, mercy,

409
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acceptance forgiveness when necessary. But these are the deep lessons

410
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of NDEs that we've been trying for thousands of years

411
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to share with the world, originally through various religions, through

412
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the messages of the prophets. But now the good news

413
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is the science of consciousness and studying near death experiences

414
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is really taking us to the whole next level of

415
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learning this deep and profound lesson of connection that has

416
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shown to us through the life review of near death

417
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experiences going back thousands of years, where we realized when

418
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we experience the life review as those around us and

419
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not as ourselves. So if we're busy handing out pain

420
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and suffering to others in the life review, you receive that.

421
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And that's why I would say that I I think

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our biggest notions of hell have come from people who

423
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had a life review where they've been so busy handing

424
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out pain and suffering to others that when they had

425
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to feel it on the receiving end as part of

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the life review corrective process, it didn't feel good. They

427
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didn't like it, and hell is a very good description

428
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of that. So really, I mean, indie ears come back

429
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ninety percent of them over thousands of years, across all

430
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bleef system, many of them that's an agnostic or atheist.

431
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They come back believing. Ninety percent of them believe in

432
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a powerful loving force at the core of the universe

433
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that actually has an influence in our lives. And I

434
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came back realizing it doesn't matter if you want to

435
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try and label that force as God or Alla Frahm

436
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and Vishnu Jehovah Yahweh Great Spirit. We don't own it,

437
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we can't control it. And indie ears have been describing

438
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it the same way for thousands of years across all

439
00:23:55.720 --> 00:24:00.920
cultures as is infinitely loving God force that is not judgmental.

440
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In fact, the judgment really seems to come kind of

441
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from our higher soul and soul group and not really

442
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you know, it's just an embarrassment in the setting of

443
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that light and love of that realm. To witness the

444
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things we did in life preview that we're selfish and

445
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greedy are just marrible. This is why it's so important.

446
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I am so glad as a materialist neuroscientist that I

447
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was rescued from the oblivion of continuing to believe my

448
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materialism nonsense that there was no meaning to life, that

449
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it was you know, birth to death and nothing more,

450
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that we're all just chemical reactions and electron fluxes giving

451
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us an illusion of conscious reality and illusion of free will.

452
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And to realize that that is all a myth perpetrated

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by materialist scientists who have no clue what consciousness is

454
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.440
and how to explain it. And that is why is

455
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.559
a modern effort by scientists to examine consciousness in the

456
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.720
nature of reality is so incredibly important in the current era,

457
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.680
and it involves an awakening of humanity that will also

458
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.880
necessitate that we take proper stewardship for this planet and

459
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.640
discontinue our very greedy and selfish you know, addiction to

460
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.839
fossil fuels, corporate greed and the energy industry, plastic pollution

461
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:18.920
twice the size of Texas and the Pacific Ocean. These

462
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.400
are all results of the false sense of separation of materialists.

463
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.119
And the more we realize we're part of the universe

464
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.599
and part of each other, we're all bound together through

465
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.440
this force of love. The more we realize that it's

466
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.599
imperative we start behaving differently than we've been behaved. Homo

467
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:39.519
sapiens is really not as wise as it labels itself

468
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.880
to be. When you look at the world today, and

469
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.240
it's high time we took proper stewardship of this planet.

470
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.960
Quit to you burning fossil fuels and elevating the temperature

471
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.160
of the planet where it becomes an unlivable nightmare for

472
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.640
our children and grandchildren, and especially when you realize the

473
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:01.319
seriousness of that reincarnation literature knowledge. The fact is Jim

474
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.440
Tucker and Ian Stevenson, who have done a lot of

475
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.920
the reincarnation work at UVA, will tell you our memories

476
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.880
are covered over at age five or six, so you

477
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.759
don't remember bust of us as adults. Teenagers and adults

478
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.519
don't remember past life memory, but they're there in children,

479
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.799
and they're very real, and in fact, they often explain

480
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.039
phobia's behaviors things like that. And these children who remember

481
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.880
past life but do not that age five or six

482
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:29.559
they start getting covered over, so by the time they're

483
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.640
an early teenager, they don't remember any of it. That's

484
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:35.519
why most don't remember that. But we should pay attention

485
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.759
to the scientific literature that tells us that a lot

486
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.759
of children do remember past life memories and that they're

487
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.079
very important and truly understanding our journey as a soul,

488
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:48.240
who we are, why we face the various hardships in

489
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.440
life that we do, and how we can learn to

490
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:54.319
grow from those hardships, challenges and difficulties and not just

491
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:55.799
fear them and run away from them.

492
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.279
And you mentioned being rescued from that type of thought process,

493
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.200
and so I would say that you now are helping

494
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.680
to rescue a lot of people out here that are

495
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:09.599
stuck in that loop. To say that this kind of

496
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.480
thing is really hard to believe is an understated because

497
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:16.039
we have a lot of people in the scientific community

498
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:20.000
who have poo pooed any You just mentioned that this

499
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:22.279
is really just chemicals firing your brain and all that

500
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:24.440
kind of stuff. But even in your book you go

501
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:28.160
a proof of heaven anyway, You actually go into as

502
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.160
a scientist, potential explanations for what you went through, and

503
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.240
then you debunk each and every one of them in

504
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.759
an appendix in the back of the book, which is

505
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:41.400
fantastic to hear a neuroscientist, an esteemed member of the

506
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:46.720
scientific community like you explain, Look, all this stuff is garbage,

507
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:50.799
this is real. That is incredibly inspiring to me anyway,

508
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:55.559
because as a pragmatist, I need someone like you to say, Yeah,

509
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.640
this stuff is real, you can believe it. You can

510
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.160
take it to the bank. Nol. The question that jumps

511
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.519
to mind immediately once reading your book is your experience

512
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.599
was very different than a lot of the experiences that

513
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.039
you hear from other ndie ears right. You didn't see

514
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.400
a tunnel that took you into a bright light. You

515
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:14.599
didn't see your loved ones at the other end of it.

516
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.799
How do you account for that? Why was yours your

517
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.359
experience so different than others that we've heard before.

518
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.359
I wouldn't say mine's so different at all, especially if

519
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:28.319
you look at Bruce Grayson's In the East Scale, which

520
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.839
he published in nineteen eighty three. It has sixteen different

521
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:35.839
elements in four broad categories, and the maximum score you

522
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.160
can get for an indie is thirty two. If you

523
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:42.400
score seven on his testing, it's an NDE. I get

524
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.640
a twenty eight or twenty nine, depending on how you

525
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.000
score it. So I had mine was absolutely right down

526
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:51.640
the alley. In fact, the only reason I lost points

527
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.720
was mainly due to my amnesia and not having a

528
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:58.279
personal life review. I couldn't have an Eben Alexander life review,

529
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.039
but I ended up seeing of life reviews and reincarnation

530
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.480
in gigantic form in two visions I had when I

531
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.799
call the Flying Fish vision, the other much more powerful.

532
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:11.599
At a later passage through the core realm was the

533
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.640
indra's net vision, and that was a very profound kind

534
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.279
of experience of the interwoven soul lines of all of

535
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:23.799
our souls involved in this evolution of conscious very profound experience.

536
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.400
So I think that's the important thing to get is

537
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.759
when you really know about indies, study indies a lot.

538
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.480
Mine ended up getting an incredibly high score. It was

539
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:35.960
every bit of that. But that amnesia was a very

540
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.559
kind of key sticking point because it's so unusual. And

541
00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:42.160
yet when I first came out of coma, to me,

542
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.079
amnesia made perfect sense because I was still harboring that

543
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.519
outmoded belief that memories might be stored of the neocortex.

544
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:51.559
But of course I didn't yet know that all my

545
00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:54.079
memories were going to come back and it'd be even

546
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.319
more complete than they were before coma, which is what

547
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.279
happened over about two months, so it's really all you know.

548
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.720
This is why I had to share the story once

549
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.079
I've figured out what had happened, As I tell in

550
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.240
the book Proof of Heaven, that happened four months after

551
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.119
coma when I received a picture in the mail from

552
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.519
a Burth sister, and that's how I identified that beautiful,

553
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:17.400
loving guardian angel on the Butterfly Way. That's when I

554
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.720
realized it all was way too real to be real,

555
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:24.279
because it actually occurred. That was the real wake up call,

556
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:28.279
the identification of that beautiful spiritual guide, and that's when

557
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.920
I really dove in earnest. Now I will point out

558
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:35.039
for you and your audience the scientific evidence for the

559
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:39.000
reality of these experiences is already overwhelming. There was a

560
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.400
contest held in twenty twenty one. Bigelow Institute dot org

561
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:46.200
is your resource site for the twenty nine winning essays

562
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:49.200
of that contest. But it was held by an entrepreneur

563
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:51.319
in Las Vegas who wanted to know what's the best

564
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.440
scientific evidence for continuation of consciousness after permanent bodily death.

565
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.319
He held a contest in twenty twenty one. They ended

566
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.480
up receiving two hundred and four essays, all from people

567
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.799
who had been at least five years scientifically researching the

568
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.559
afterlife question, so very high quality. Not from armchair philosophers

569
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.359
who know nothing about this and who commented on it

570
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.119
from a position of complete ignorance. These people know what

571
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.799
they're talking about. If you go to Bigelow Institute dot org,

572
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.599
you can read all twenty nine winning essays for free.

573
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.079
I highly recommend do that, and you'll realize after reading

574
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.279
any of these essays that we're already pretty far along

575
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.880
the pathway to a scientific kind of explication of the

576
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.839
reality of these experiences, and then we'll need to move

577
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:40.079
into understanding mechanism much better. But the reality is that

578
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.799
first place essay by Jeffrey Mischlav really hits it out

579
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:47.519
of the park. For those who absolutely insist on a

580
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:53.000
very strong, leading edge scientific analysis, I would recommend several

581
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.839
of the essays, but in particular Pim van Label's essay,

582
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.319
the second place winner, also Bernardo Castro, who these are

583
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.559
all also supportive of our book Living in My University

584
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:09.319
scientific endorsers, and also Julie Bischel, she rather beautiful scientifically

585
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:14.720
derived essay on the reality of mediumship and the mediums

586
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:18.119
that interact with the souls of departed loved ones. And

587
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.839
Julie Weischel has done a lot of very good scientific

588
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.079
work fully supporting the reality of this, so it's no

589
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:26.519
longer a question of whether or not this is compatible

590
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:29.799
with science. What you end up finding as a scientist

591
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:33.160
is either familiar with the data or they're willfully ignorant.

592
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.480
And there are enough of them around, of the wilfully

593
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.680
ignorant ones who keep claiming things even though they really

594
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.880
don't have any basis for knowing it at all. Like

595
00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:44.359
Sean Carroll, I had the pleasure of debating Shawn. He's

596
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.039
a brilliant physicist, and I really love his physics work.

597
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.880
But this is back in Intelligence Square in twenty four furteen,

598
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.000
a debate with him and Steve Novella. But I must

599
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.720
tell you that he has no experience to be answering

600
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.799
these questions of the spiritual nature. And yet he keeps claiming,

601
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.079
as a particle physicist that he has proof there is

602
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.799
no God, there is no heaven, And I would say

603
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:09.559
he's dead wrong. Put him up against all those winning

604
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:13.440
Bigelow Institute essays, and you realize he might know quite

605
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.160
a bit about quantum physics, but he's not very educated

606
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.079
about this particular question. So there are a lot of

607
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.440
scientists who are to go to Scientific and Medical dot net,

608
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.640
go to Galileo Commission dot org. You will find these

609
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.119
are groups that I've worked with from around the world,

610
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.680
scientists who realize that the materialist model that pretends you

611
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.440
know physicalism that only the physical world exists. The brain

612
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:38.680
creates consciousness that that isn't supported by the evidence at all,

613
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.880
and we are much better off flicking consciousness as being

614
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.839
a unified field that's interconnected with our brain, serving as

615
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.880
a filter that allows us to access that level, the

616
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.920
mental layer of the universe. But the interesting thing is

617
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.480
when our brain and body die, it's not a shrinking

618
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:59.079
down of conscious awareness to nothing, as a materialist would predict,

619
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.960
but it's a liberation from the shackles of the prison.

620
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:06.119
So it's an enlargement and enrichment and a reconnection of consciousness.

621
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.119
So it's a complete opposite of what materialism supports. And

622
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.199
yet there are millions and millions of indies out there

623
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:17.400
around this world. To attest to the reality of this,

624
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.280
it happens in something like fifteen percent of cardiac arrest patients.

625
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:24.440
They have a profound spiritual experience that can be labeled

626
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.039
an indie. Probably something like five percent or more of

627
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:32.639
Americans and Western Europeans have had a near death experience,

628
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:36.320
and these after death communications are even more common, probably

629
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:39.079
the tune of twenty percent or so people having a

630
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:42.159
very powerful connection with a loved one who's left the

631
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:46.400
physical claim that to them completely proves the reality of

632
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:49.760
their ongoing connections. And in this regard, we just lost

633
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:53.719
one of our great pioneers of Bill Guggenheim, who wrote

634
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:56.719
to his former wife Judy Guggenheim in the mid nineteen

635
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.960
nineties the book A Hello from Heaven, which is about

636
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.920
over three hundred after death communication cases that they investigated.

637
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.840
And unfortunately Bill has just recently passed over himself a

638
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.639
few weeks ago. And Bill was one of my greatest mentors,

639
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.960
and I miss him from the physical world, but I've

640
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.960
already had Daron and I have already had beautiful contact

641
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.880
with him from the from the uh, you know, the

642
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:24.800
other side, and he's wow.

643
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.039
Well, And I was just going to ask you about that.

644
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.960
We've talked to several, well many people that have had

645
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:35.519
NDEs and they have all, at least the vast majority

646
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.119
of them have told us that they have changed, obviously

647
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.280
their perspective, their beliefs, but so many of them have

648
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:45.320
developed these spiritual gifts and whether it's channeling or the

649
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:47.719
ability to connect to source. And I wanted to ask

650
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.119
you if that had been your experience as well.

651
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:52.920
Actually, you know what, before you answer that let's take

652
00:35:52.920 --> 00:36:03.559
a break and we'll be right back. And now back

653
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.559
to the skeptic metaphysicians.

654
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:12.960
We've talked to several, well many people that have had NDEs,

655
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.119
and they have all, at least the vast majority of them,

656
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.199
have told us that they have changed, obviously their perspective,

657
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.840
their beliefs, but so many of them have developed these

658
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.280
spiritual gifts and whether it's channeling or the ability to

659
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.960
connect to source. And I wanted to ask you if

660
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.440
that had been your experience as well.

661
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.159
Well I had, Well, it has been in a huge way,

662
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.519
but in many ways it's been cultivated. I realized, you know,

663
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.360
in the first two years or so after Macoma, I

664
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.239
read more than one hundred and fifty books quantum physics,

665
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.239
everything about brain mind connection. I could get my hands

666
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.719
on spiritual texts east and west, going back thousands of years.

667
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:53.159
I really wanted to get to it. But I realized

668
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.280
that ultimately if I wanted to have any kind of

669
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:59.320
deep understanding of my journey, I had to explore consciousness.

670
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.360
I had to meditate, I had to use centering prayer,

671
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:05.960
I had to go within. And so, beginning about two

672
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.679
years post COVID, that's what I started doing and I

673
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:12.039
wasn't just doing it randomly or kind of chaotically. I

674
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:14.960
was quite focused. I had heard about a technology called

675
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:18.960
binaural beat brain wave in trainment. It's a phenomenon discovered

676
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:23.360
in the mid eighteen hundreds by Wilhelm Heinrich Dove. It

677
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:26.440
basically says, if you put a pure tone in one ear,

678
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.039
say one hundred herts one hundred cycles per second in

679
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.760
one ear, and as an example, one hundred and four

680
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:35.239
herts in the other ear, so a four hertz difference

681
00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:37.639
between the two, you end up getting a four herd

682
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.440
signal somewhere in the brain. Heinrich Dove got this, and

683
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:45.960
then in the late twentieth century, Robert Munroe investigated binoral

684
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.360
beats in the all the instigation of out of body

685
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:55.960
experiences and other investigators use binoral beats to enhance remote viewing,

686
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:59.320
you know, the psychic spiabilities and what have you. The

687
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:03.599
viewing is one of the most scientifically validated forms of

688
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:08.119
nonlocal consciousness in the world. It's been beautifully validated by

689
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:11.760
Jessica uttz Out of the American Statistical Association in her

690
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:16.159
presidential address in twenty fifteen, where she talks about precognition

691
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:20.119
and remote viewing, saying the statistical scientific evidence for their

692
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.159
reality is beyond dispute. And yet you find sources like Wikipedia,

693
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:28.440
which is made up of rampant militant materialists, claiming that

694
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:34.480
remote viewing as pseudoscience. Well, that's because Wikipedia is pseudo encyclopedia.

695
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.800
They have no business. Any encyclopedia edited by the lowest

696
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:42.599
common denominators can't be worth wasting your time on time

697
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:45.679
to get rid of that. But that, unfortunately is the

698
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.960
sad truth. If people use Wikipedia for information, especially about

699
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.119
spiritual matters, they're going to find that there's this gestapo

700
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.360
that is right there to smash any kind of hint

701
00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:00.960
of spirituality of merging on Wikipedia. Utily, there are plenty

702
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.840
of excellent resources out there that show the deep truth

703
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.559
of remote viewing and other things. But that was my

704
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.719
key in to meditation was using vinyl beat, brain wave

705
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:13.360
and trainment, and in fact, my partner Karen Newell, who

706
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.239
had been very busy with vinyl beats long before I

707
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.760
discovered that them, she ended up under my encouragement. She

708
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:23.719
and her business partner Kevin Cossey, who's a sound engineer,

709
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.800
electrical mechanical engineer, but he uses it also for sound engineering.

710
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:31.000
They ended up forming a company, Sacred Acoustics, and I

711
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.039
was their alpha tester from the get go. I use

712
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.079
Sacred Acoustics daily hour to a day. I use it

713
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:41.559
for meditation, very powerful technique. It allows us to be

714
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.519
liberated from the here now in the sense of self,

715
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.599
of the physical body and brain. And that's where we

716
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:50.679
have used our workshops. Karen and I have to prove

717
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:53.000
that many of us who have never had a near

718
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.800
death experience that can come into the same kinds of

719
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:59.519
knowledge that proved the reality of the NDE using bid

720
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:04.000
ol beat brainwave and trained enhance meditation. If you go

721
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.400
to Sacred Acoustics dot com you can learn a lot more.

722
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:08.760
You can look at a lot of the testimonials there

723
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:11.639
and download a free twenty minute on file listen to

724
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:15.039
that with headphones. But for me, I could not dispense

725
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.719
with my tones. I use them not just to return

726
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.599
to my ndie to recover from memories, but really to

727
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:25.119
cultivate and interact with the various denizens and guides and entities,

728
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:28.360
and especially that infinitely loving God force at the core

729
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.320
of the universe. Through my meditative efforts. With sacred acoustics.

730
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:36.920
I must confess I have not yet duplicated the full

731
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:41.000
blown ultra reality of my near death experience. It was

732
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:43.400
so prominent I talk about that in Trove of Heaven.

733
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.920
How it's much more real than this existence. You know,

734
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:49.400
people often think, well, an Indie must be kind of

735
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:54.440
dreamlike in Murky's. No, this is dreamlike in Murky that

736
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.719
is sharp and clear, memorable to find, and transformational. In

737
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.760
way is that here is no full well and we'll

738
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.639
describe by the millions. And this is where I think

739
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.519
it's important for all of us to learn to go

740
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:11.039
with him. We can all started to cultivate our rich

741
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:12.920
relationship to the universe at large.

742
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.599
Now I am absolutely giddy to hear you say things

743
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:18.599
like this is exactly what I've been looking for my

744
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.079
entire life. It feels like. And I think we should

745
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.000
note that one of the most astounding things about your

746
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:29.719
experience is that you you hadn't really studied ndaes or

747
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.960
anything like that before. So when you came out, I

748
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.480
believe it was your son or somebody and your family

749
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.440
asked you to go ahead and write it down before

750
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.400
you look into it, and then after you it was

751
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:41.880
all written down. That's when you started looking into it

752
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:45.360
and finding the similarity. So that in and of itself

753
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:48.320
is astounding to think that you had no knowledge of

754
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:50.679
ends until that point and it was all proven to

755
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.199
you for a third party for vocation.

756
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.199
Right, and that was really Both my sons, Eben and Bond,

757
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.519
have been tremendous gifts in this kind of un raveling

758
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:03.119
of this journey. Bond, of course, was that ten year

759
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:05.159
old boy that I saw at the end of my

760
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.760
journey and knew I had to come back to this world,

761
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.320
even though I did not recognize him. And Evan, the fourth,

762
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.159
my older son, was the one. He had been there

763
00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.719
at the bedside holding my hand, you know, with other

764
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:18.800
family members while I was deep in coma, and then

765
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:21.400
he'd gone back to school as I was starting to

766
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:24.039
show some signs of recovery, just to finish off some

767
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:27.480
final exams before he raced back home right before Thanksgiving,

768
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.400
two days after I got out of the hospital, and

769
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.400
I remember he drove overnight to surprise me because he'd

770
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:35.480
heard I was up all night because I couldn't sleep.

771
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.000
I was so energized because of my coma, and he

772
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.119
got there about six am, gave me a big hug,

773
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:42.119
and he told me later he said it was like

774
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.480
there was a light shining within me. I was far

775
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.599
more present than I'd ever been before, and I remember

776
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.320
telling him it was way too real to be real.

777
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.320
You know. That was the hint from my doctors. You know,

778
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:57.360
my neuroscience knowledge was still not back. It was still

779
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.920
partially and temporarily all flaws because of the illness. And

780
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.760
yet my doctors were so shocked that I'd actually been

781
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.719
able to lead the hospital, making conversation, able to communicate.

782
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.159
That was such a complete shock to them, given what

783
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.000
they expected of this ilkness. They kept telling me, well,

784
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:16.400
the dying brain plays all kinds of tricks. We have

785
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:18.719
no idea how you're coming back to us, but you

786
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:22.239
can forget about whatever you experienced, because the dying brain

787
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:27.440
is tricky, and I believe to that. And in fact,

788
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.639
i'd never really read the indie literature. I always thought, well,

789
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:33.159
it's nonsense, you know, it's hallucinations of the dying brain.

790
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:36.320
Who cares. But now I realized, my God is so

791
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:38.719
much more than that. It's what happens when you die,

792
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:42.039
these incredible visions, and so I dove in deep to

793
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.239
the literature, But only after I had written about twenty

794
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:48.000
thousand words of my own story, and that was due

795
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:50.800
to my advice of EB. And four. He told me

796
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.039
write it all down before you read anyone else's indie account.

797
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:58.480
And that was very very important. That way, I knew

798
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.960
that everything that I'd written down about my own experience

799
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.880
was my own experience and nowhere was it tainted by

800
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:09.400
someone else's NDE or their experience. And as I said,

801
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:12.440
when you when you really lined up against other indies

802
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.760
and are rigorous, you know, academic, scholarly fashion, it scores

803
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:20.079
very high on the on the Bruce Brace and Indie scale.

804
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:24.760
One of the things that surprised me, let's say that

805
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.559
is is that because when you first I don't know

806
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.880
if the right term is woke up in the NDE

807
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.440
where when you went to Koma and you became aware

808
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:36.440
you were in this muck, this darkness, this area that

809
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.480
didn't seem pleasant for lack of a better word, But

810
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:44.880
then you rose up into the other realms, which were

811
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:48.280
the heaven that people talk about. What do you think

812
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:48.719
that is?

813
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:49.199
What?

814
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.440
What is that muck that you awakened to in the beginning.

815
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:55.519
Or you know, it's what I call the earth worms

816
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:59.199
I view, and it was a very primitive, course, unresponsive

817
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.559
realm being in dirty jello, had no body wearing this

818
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:05.639
body image at any point during any of this journey.

819
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.360
And in that earth form I view, it really was

820
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.159
kind of you know, it's negative when I talk about it,

821
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.800
when I describe it, people think, WHOA, that's kind of foreboding.

822
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:19.519
But I had no memory of anything different. So to me,

823
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:21.679
it was like, this is the way it is. And

824
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:24.519
I had no complaints. You know, it was not for

825
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.119
voting until the very, very very end, when I recognized

826
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.199
the face of that ten year old boy and realized

827
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:33.639
I had to get back whatever back meant. And now

828
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:35.760
all of a sudden, I realized it was very important

829
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.320
whether I survived or not and what this outcome was.

830
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:40.719
And yet I had no idea what the rules of

831
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.880
this world were. And that's why, you know, my higher

832
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.599
soul ended up kind of ushering me back in some

833
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:48.920
fashion or another. I came back to this world. But

834
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.239
that earthworm my view, was very primitive and course, and

835
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.719
initially I thought, you know, that was the best consciousness

836
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.280
my brain could muster soaking in puss, but in reading

837
00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:01.840
more and more of the literature, especially when I started

838
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.320
with the Tibetan Book of the Dead and other books

839
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:06.639
to the dead, things like that Egyptian Book of the Dead.

840
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.159
To me, especially the Bardos and the Tibetan Book of

841
00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:14.960
the Dead, was very much like my earthworm my view,

842
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.559
so I came to see it as probably a more

843
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:20.800
universal layer. It's not one that you often hear about

844
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:24.719
in indies. People are so busy sharing the beautiful, you know,

845
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:29.840
loving incredible mirth and joy, spiritual home nature of indies

846
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:33.159
and not necessarily some of the kind of ragged edges

847
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:35.880
around the entry points at center. But to me it

848
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:37.679
was just part of the experience that I had to

849
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:41.199
report along with everything else. But the deep reality is

850
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:43.719
by the end of my journey cycling through you know,

851
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.960
the beautiful gateway valley, then up into the core and

852
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:48.880
then back down to the earth or my view, and

853
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:54.239
through these multiple times, I came to realize the ultimate

854
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:58.159
reality of that loving core of the universe. And that's

855
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.440
what showed me so purely, this is never a battle

856
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.639
between good and evil. It can seem that way at

857
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:06.239
our level, way out here in the kind of lowest

858
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.679
material realm, but the closer you get to the spiritual

859
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:13.000
core of the universe. The more is pure love, that

860
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:16.280
God force. There is no battle between good and evil,

861
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:17.960
and in fact, I would say the good and evil

862
00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:22.559
is a gradient that drives our evolution towards the good.

863
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:25.079
That's what that life review it was all about. That's

864
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.599
what Indie Ease and their contribution to human knowledge are

865
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:32.440
all about. Is coming to a deeper understanding of how

866
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:36.119
we are all part of this infinitely loving God force

867
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.840
of the universe, and religions have tried to teach us

868
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.400
that for thousands of years. For religions tend to get

869
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.599
locked up into ideologies and into conflicts that are perceived

870
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:49.400
but not necessarily real from the deep spiritual level where

871
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.840
there's such unity from the voice of Indie Ears. No

872
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:56.519
matter what their religious fate, they come back with these

873
00:47:56.559 --> 00:48:00.599
discussions of that love, of that kindness, that compassion, mercy, acceptance.

874
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:04.119
These are the principles that really guide that spiritual world.

875
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.199
And the more we understand that and the kind of

876
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:11.920
leading edge of ndeas to lead us towards this deeper

877
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:14.840
knowledge of unification in the binding course of love that

878
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:17.599
can bring us into wholeness and healing. That's where the

879
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:21.079
world can really grow into a positive transformation.

880
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.559
Now, you mentioned religion, and a word that goes hand

881
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.199
in hand with religion often is prayer. And you mentioned

882
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:30.440
prayer and the power of prayer earlier. So with your

883
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:34.079
experiences and everything that you believe, how would you define prayer.

884
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.920
I think prayer for me it changed. I will point

885
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:41.480
that out before my coma and I really had not

886
00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:44.079
prayed for about seven years. I explained a lot of

887
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:45.960
that proof of having it in many of my talks,

888
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:48.119
but I had a dark knight of the soul perceive

889
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:50.960
rejection from my birth mother in the year two thousand.

890
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:54.760
So not much prayer in the recent years before my coma,

891
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:58.639
but many attempts before that, and sometimes I felt very successful.

892
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:02.440
I've taken my son's church, things like that. I enjoyed

893
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.280
that attempting to see the power of prayer, although for

894
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.440
much my life, you know, it wasn't as obvious to

895
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:10.639
me as it was, for example, to my father. He

896
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.519
was a neurosurgeon, very advanced knowledge scientifically, but for him,

897
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:18.119
he grew up during the Depression, was a combat surgeon

898
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:20.760
in the Second World War, and he never had any

899
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:23.719
conflict between belief and a loving personal God and the

900
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.320
power of prayer in his work as a surgeon and

901
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.079
his knowledge of science. But for me, I made the

902
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:33.119
mistake of thinking that science was the you know, the

903
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:36.519
New York Times Scientific American version of science, which is

904
00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:41.039
very materialistic and therefore is denying much of the evidence

905
00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:44.119
of the spiritual nature of the universe and of ourself.

906
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.719
But that is where they're all waking up now, including

907
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.800
even Scientific American with some of the essays that Bernardo

908
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.719
castrop has published there recently, the show of the power

909
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.880
of idealism. That isn't this mental model of the universe

910
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.079
with a mental layer being primary and causing all that

911
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:03.760
we see emerging in the physical layer of the universe.

912
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:08.079
So it's it's really about modern science, quantum informed science.

913
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:12.360
In fact, quantum physics in many ways demands this mental

914
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.480
layer of the universe, that it not be some simplistic,

915
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:20.039
mechanistic layer, but that what explained kind of human history

916
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:23.800
and human destiny much better is realizing the power of

917
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.000
our free will to kind of organize how those events unfold.

918
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.159
And that's what shows us that it's not just some

919
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:35.280
bottom up causality based on the sub atomic particles in

920
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.320
our brains and around us and bodies following the laws

921
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:41.960
of physics, chemistry, biology, but there's something much more afoot

922
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.280
to explain human destiny, and that's where we really be

923
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.840
too invoke that mental layer of the universe. And that's

924
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:51.840
where I would say that top down kind of notion

925
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:56.840
of spirituality from near death experiences is so much part

926
00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:01.800
of that emerging science and the quantum physics. In fact,

927
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:05.280
that old saying that nature abhors a vacuum will in

928
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:09.039
fact to quantum physics abhors any universe. It doesn't involve

929
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:13.360
that mental layer of top down causality, and that's exactly

930
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:16.000
what we argue in our book Living in My Universe,

931
00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:19.760
the primordial mind hypothesis, and a lot of the scientific

932
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:23.039
world is starting to move towards a model like that,

933
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:26.840
where we have that primary godmind that is split into

934
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:31.320
these little dissociated any currents of individual self awareness. But

935
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:35.159
that didn't seem rejoined the privority of mind, but in

936
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:38.119
a way that preserves, in a fashion that I call viscosity,

937
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:41.360
some line between a past life and a current life.

938
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:43.519
So it's not just that we are like a drop

939
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:46.599
in the ocean between lives, and that's a complete mix

940
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:50.039
and that there's never any preservation of the information from

941
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:53.320
one life into the next life, because in fact, that's

942
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:56.559
where the past life memories and children are so indicative

943
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:01.360
of a strong kind of ongoing current of facts involved

944
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:04.519
in one life that then become involved in the next life.

945
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.760
And that's where trans personal psychology, the work of Carl

946
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:13.320
Jung and Stan Groff, Michael Newton, Brian Weiss, Robert Schwartz,

947
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:16.800
and others, is so important because they have uncovered through

948
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:20.599
not a progression and meditation other techniques of recovering path

949
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.920
life memories, that people can discover this on their own.

950
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:27.880
Their past life memories can contribute tremendously to understanding the

951
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:31.239
issues of this life. And that's why this knowledge of

952
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.519
our bigger nature and that we've been here before, that

953
00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:38.280
there's a preservation of kind of a history of our

954
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.360
choices and behaviors sentient beings in the past that plays

955
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:45.559
out in our current incarnation. And the best way to

956
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:49.159
bring that to a most successful fulfillment in the maximum

957
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:52.159
growth of a soul during a lifetime is to fully

958
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:55.880
open to the reality of this loving interconnectedness we share

959
00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:58.000
with the universe at large, and that we have a

960
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:01.519
responsibility as souls to help all of our fellow souls

961
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:05.000
along that pathway of love and coming into wholeness as

962
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:08.440
best we can. And that's where we end up getting

963
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:12.000
tremendous kind of soul growth and personal benefit out of

964
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:16.280
these efforts to connect with the universe at large, meditation, centering, prayer,

965
00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:19.440
other ways of connecting. We don't have to depend on

966
00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:23.599
two thousand year old Dogmak reported in books where some

967
00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:27.119
of the church fathers handling those books are afraid of

968
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:30.440
people who have had actual person experience and will try

969
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.519
and tell you it's the devil's work. Well, that's not true.

970
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:38.079
In fact, the vast majority of NDEs lead towards this

971
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:45.039
notion of love, kindness, compassion, unconditional love, verse in acceptance, forgiveness, gratitude,

972
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:48.159
all of these profound capabilities of the human soul to

973
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:51.360
help us to grow. And that's where I think all

974
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.000
of us can benefit from awakening to these deeper.

975
00:53:53.719 --> 00:53:58.000
Truths, no doubt about it. Absolutely I could listen to

976
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:01.000
you speak for literally data just sit here and listen

977
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:05.039
to you speak. It is so rewarding to hear someone

978
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.199
with your credentials speak about this stuff in such a

979
00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:11.559
matter of fact way that helps us really come to

980
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:13.079
terms of the fact that we're much more than this

981
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:16.119
three dimensional bodies that we havebit I know you are

982
00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:18.679
an incredibly busy man. We don't want to take up

983
00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:21.159
any more of your time. We're going to lay in

984
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:24.000
direct links to your books, Proof of Heaven, Living in

985
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:26.800
a Mindful Universe, all those books as well as some

986
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.280
of the resources that you mentioned in the interview. So

987
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:32.760
if you're interested in doing further research, please feel free

988
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:36.039
to go to skepticmandposition dot com and go to doctor

989
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:39.159
Alexander's episode page. You will see all the links directly

990
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:43.760
listed there, as well as doctor Alexander's website and social

991
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:45.320
media accounts so that you can reach out to him

992
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:49.199
directly if you're so inclined. Doctor, I have at least

993
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:51.920
fifty two more questions that I wish I had more

994
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:53.719
time for, But maybe at some point in future we

995
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:55.440
can have you back and continue the conversation.

996
00:54:55.559 --> 00:54:57.960
Well, I think that'd be a great idea. And what

997
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.199
I recommend is we also in to my partner and

998
00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:04.320
co author of Living in My Universe, Karen Dwell. She's

999
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.400
been a very rich source of spiritual wisdom to me

1000
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:12.239
of course, is an expert in the sound induced meditative states,

1001
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.840
and maybe we should reconnect and have Paren join us

1002
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:19.159
next time so people can hear somebody who really understands

1003
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:20.440
all of this. That would be great.

1004
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:24.920
Would love that, absolutely love that. Yeah, So thank you

1005
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:26.599
so much for your time, Thank you so much for

1006
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:29.880
your expertise and the information you provided to us, And

1007
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.360
thank you so much for sharing your story, because people

1008
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:34.920
like you standing up and talking about this kind of

1009
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.239
thing is what's going to help change the world. So

1010
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:38.840
thank you so much for what you're doing.

1011
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:41.400
Well, and Karen, thank you so much for having me on.

1012
00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:45.239
I greatly appreciate it and look forward to our next conversation,

1013
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:47.159
as do we.

1014
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:49.679
Well, thanks for coming along on this journey discovery with us.

1015
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.400
We'd love to continue our conversation with you on our

1016
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:56.239
website at Skeptic Metaphysician dot com or on Facebook and

1017
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:00.440
Instagram under a Skeptic Metaphysician podcast. I know someone who

1018
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:03.119
would benefit from hearing the messages we're sharing on the show.

1019
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:06.119
Do them and us a favor and share the show

1020
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.199
with them. It will help get the word out about us,

1021
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.280
and it may just change someone's life for the better

1022
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:14.480
and If you're listening to this on the radio and

1023
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:17.079
you missed something, well, not to worry. All of our shows,

1024
00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:21.239
including this one, can be found at skeptic metaphysician dot com,

1025
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:23.519
where you can also watch the videos or even send

1026
00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:26.679
us an email or voicemail directly from the site. We

1027
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:32.320
absolutely love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you. I

1028
00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:34.000
hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as we have.

1029
00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:36.079
That's all for now. We'll see you on the next

1030
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:40.559
episode of Dyskeptic Metaphysicians. Until then, take care,