The Atheist’s Guide to Proof of the Afterlife - Classic
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Welcome to Classic Skeptic Metaphysicians! We're re-releasing some of our back catalog so that these gems can be re-discovered!

This week: The Atheist’s Guide to Proof of the Afterlife

Though identifying as an atheist, Elizabeth Entin began examining evidence of an afterlife and anything paranormal in 2015, following the passing of her father. What she found….BLEW HER AWAY, challenging her own beliefs in the process.

Here's what I cover with Elizabeth Entin in this episode:
1. Exploring the possibility of an afterlife through scientific research

2. Investigating the potential of Mediumship and near-death experiences to provide insight into the afterlife

3. Examining the complexity of morality, spirituality, and the human experience from a philosophical perspective.

And so much more!


Guest Info:
Website:
https://www.wtfjusthappened.net
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtf_just_happened_
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@wtfjusthappened
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtf_just_happened_0

Connect With the Skeptic Metaphysicians:
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SkepticMetaphysician
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcBaf4lhzharlTVxa6Vm9mg
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WillRodriguezFl
Website: https://www.skepticmetaphysician.com

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Wtf just happened? Have you ever found yourself asking yourself

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that question? Well, today's guest has, In fact, she does

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that on a regular basis while diving into evidence of

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the afterlife in psychic mediums as an atheist. If you're

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one of those questions of validity behind life after death

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claims being thrown around in our space all the time,

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then this is the show for you. Because once she

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started looking into all the evidence as an atheist, mind you,

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she says that she was blown away.

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You don't want to miss this one. Welcome to the

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Skeptic Metaphysicians.

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My name is Will and, unlike Boulder and Scully, to believe,

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so we've embarked in a journey of discovery.

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Welcome to Skeptic Medicians Classic.

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You are listening to the classic Skeptic Metaphysicians. Welcome to

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our version of a walkdown memory Lane as we present

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classics from the Skeptic Metaphysician library, warts and all. Today's

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story is called the Butterfly. A man found a cocoon

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from a butterfly. One day, a small opening appeared, so

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he sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as

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it struggled to force its body through that little hole,

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until suddenly it stopped making any progress and looked like

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it was stuck. So the man decided to help the butterfly.

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He took a pair of scissors and snipped off the

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remaining bit of the cocoon so the butterfly could then

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emerge easily. Although it had a swollen body in small,

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shriveled wings, the man didn't think anything of it and

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sat They're waiting for the wings to enlarge to support

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the butterfly, But that never happened. The butterfly spent the

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rest of its life unable to fly, crawling around with

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tiny wings and a swollen body. Despite the kind heart

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of the man, he didn't understand that the restricting cocoon

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and the struggle needed by the butterfly to get itself

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through the small opening were God's way of forcing fluid

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from the body of the butterfly into its wings to

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prepare itself for flying once it was out of the cocoon.

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Well, the moral of.

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This story fits in so well when it comes to

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all things spiritual. You see, our struggles in life develop

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our strengths. Without struggles, we never grow and never get stronger.

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So It's important for us.

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To tackle challenges on our own and be grateful for them,

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because every challenge prepares us with the ability to handle

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the results.

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Welcome to the skeptic metaphysicians.

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Liz Enton began examining evidence of an afterlife and anything

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paranormal in twenty fifteen following the passing of her father,

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but what she was still considers herself skeptical and an atheist.

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The evidence that she found just blew her away. She's

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the author of Wtf Just Happened? A science skeptic exploration

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of grief, healing and evidence of an afterlife, and the

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host of the podcast of the same name, all about

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the afterlife. No role on that show, folks, just plain talk,

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which you know I love. Obviously you've noticed that I

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am without Karen today, Sadly she had a family obligation

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to attend to so it's just me, but I am

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super well accompanied by Elizabeth Enton.

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Lizabeth, thank you so much for coming on the show.

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Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited

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to talk with you today.

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Me too, because what you talk about is right up

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my alley. First and foremost, I know that you say

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that you are an atheist, Right, So let's set the

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table by atheists. You mean you don't believe in anything?

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Or can you quantify that for me?

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Sure? I guess when I say atheist, I think of

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atheist as believing in God and religion, and I've never

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seen any evidence of God, and I've just I don't

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think God has anything to do with an afterlife. I

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think that two are completely separate, and I think the

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alignment that so many people have to me, I respect it,

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but from a factual perspective, it doesn't make any sense.

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I'm really curious to hear how you put the two together,

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because like the space that we're into, spiritual world that

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we're both in, it's really tied. Talk us a lot

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about the afflet, but talks a lot about God or

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the universe or energies or whatever it is. So you

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don't think there's a if I'm correct me if I'm wrong,

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you don't think that there's a white guy in a

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robe sitting on a throne in heaven, right.

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So I would find that probably the least likely explanation

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of everything that could happen. Yeah, am I going to

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say factually? But to me that is I can't think

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of anything less.

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Likely, right, So then what and I'm sorry we're debating

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a little bit, but then what is your thought?

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Like, how what is God for you? If anything?

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Nothing? I mean, I have researched a lot of the

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studies done on afterlife survival of consciousness non local consciousness,

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and I just don't see how from I think it's

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more of a physics based answer that in some form

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that we don't know yet, similar probably to how the

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cloud works. Ideally, something along the lines of the large

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Hatred collider significantly were advanced, we'll be able to figure

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out what this substance is. But that our consciousness is

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not created by brain, but downloaded by a brain and

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continues in some form that is much were answered by

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particle physics than some singular moral consciousness that somewhat resembles

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a human that a grand of religions I would say

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as questionable morals anyway, and that that created all this.

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It just seems just irrelevant to the topic. And there's

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just a ton of data that our consciousness is not

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local and downloaded, and to me, that question has nothing

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to do with is there one singular, huge consciousness that

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created it?

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So it's just Okay, So really I didn't mean to

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make this into a conversation about religion or anything like

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that or the meaning of God, but the question has

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to be asked, do you then some people believe that

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maybe we are all parts of God?

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Right?

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I don't hesitate to use that word in your presence.

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And when we die, when we pass on, we reconnect,

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we become one once again. So then my question would

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be first two questions. One is that your thought process?

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And if so, then what is it that we join

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up with?

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Okay, so first, no, my thought process is not that

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at all. It was just I'd go into originally, my

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original thought that even got me down this path, obviously,

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aside from grief, was at this point I thought consciousness

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was created by our brain neurons. And this will lead

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into answering your question. So, if that happened once to

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create a me or to create my dad, why could

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it not happen again? Not necessarily me again, not related

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to karma, but just another set of brain neurons coincidentally

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creating another human and it would get to be something

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I would experience, not as Liz, but just being somebody else.

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As if you guys have the experience of being another person,

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and to me, the only other thought I thought was

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possible at that point was complete obliteration. So even though

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I wouldn't have any memories of my life, it was

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better than never having an experience of consciousness. Again, Part

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two of my thought was is there any possibility, in

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any way, shape or form that some of the memories

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have carried over? So I googled that. I found researchers

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at the University of Virginia, doctor Jim Tucker and his

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mentor who since passed away, doctor Ian Stephenson, factually studying

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cases of kids with past life memories and getting accurate

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results after matching up with data, so my whole approach. Afterwards,

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I found Windbridge with doctor Julie Bishell. More researchers at

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the University of Virginia such as doctor Bruce Grayson who

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studied near death experiences, and doctor ed Kelly and doctor

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Emily Kelly who also studies mediumship, and significantly others. So

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I just came from it not is there a God,

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but is there any data that shows that in some way,

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shape or form, we can get information mediums can get

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information that's factual and accurate that they could not know

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by normal means such as googleing, cold reading. And if so,

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all of this is happening from accurate medium readings, cases

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of kids with past life memories that check out near

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death experiences. This stuff and occurrences and results are absolutely

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not explicable. If our consciousness is created by brain neurons

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and when we die, that's it. So what answers does

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that leave? And this data just there's no answer in

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the explanation of consciousness created by a brain that could

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explain for this. I sincerely hope it's survival of consciousness.

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I think that's the most likely explanation. And where is

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it we go? I don't know. I wish I knew.

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Mediums will say it's just this place of complete love

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I have. Personally, I don't like the word belief because

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none of this is based on belief. It's based on

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actual data and some personal experiences I've had, such as

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getting medium readings. That's all some other weird things, but.

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We'll talk about all those, but go ahead.

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Yeah, yeah, this is just pure data. So I don't

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like to have belief in anything. I'm sure I'm human.

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We all have beliefs. It's impossible to say I don't

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carry beliefs, but I try not to, and so where

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do we go? So maybe this is my coming in

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with a little bit of belief. Mediums say that when

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we pass away, it's all love, and then we come

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here to learn. I have a hard time believing that

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in this other dimension it's all perfect, pure love with

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the conflict we have here. So I'm guessing they might

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experience it that way, if I could guess. And again

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this isn't data. This is now I am going a

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little into the belief realm. But my guess is they

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experience that, or people experience in your death experiences is

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all love because like you know, let's say you've been

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traveling for a month that haven't talked to your parents

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or your spouse, and you reach them, you're able to

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call them and you're like, oh my god, I love

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you so much. You're not arguing over stupid things or

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irritated with each other, and or you come back from

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a I know, I'm thinking about like the first time

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you go to college and you come home and see

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your parents, like that first day, and I'm sure there

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are exceptions, but overall that first day you just feel

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so like the warmth and love. So near death experiences

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is the very first moments of crossing over. So that's

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my guess.

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I can totally see and hear the scientists skeptic still

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hiding under your words, and yet you're trying to in

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your mind make things make sense from a pragmatic point

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of view. And I love that because that's been me

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the entire time up until well, this show has changed.

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Some things for me, let's just put it that way.

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But what I find interesting is that there's a thought

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that science there's no way that science can explain some

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of these things, because our scientific instruments stop just short

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of being able to measure into this other realm that

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we apparently go to once we pass over. So really

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there's no way to truly know what's out there without

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actually experiencing ourselves. And yet it seems that a lot

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of us who are pragmatic in mindset and scientific and skeptical,

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we tend to try to still wrap it around some

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form of scientific explanation for something that may or may

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not have a scientific basis.

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To talk specifically about your.

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Love comment, that makes perfect sense right as you come

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back from a long trip, and also you see your

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family for the first time, and oh my god, you're

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reminded of how much you missed them and how much

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you love them. And then maybe that passes, maybe doesn't.

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Most of the time it passes a little bit, the

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intensity is not as strong. But then there's another school

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of thought that says that we are love, that that

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is our true nature. We are love, So when we

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pass over, we're actually becoming who we truly are, which

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is love. At which point, then, might we experience complete

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love with abandon while we're out there?

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I would think it would get boring. I do think

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in one sense, and again this is more getting into

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philosophy than evidence. I do think we are in essence

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love sense, that's when we thrive. But I don't think.

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I mean, we just can't say that's all there is

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to us. It seems like too much wishful thinking. Because

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of how there are people who are really cruel people.

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We can't deny that there's conflict, So I just where

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does that come from? I don't think. I think it

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would just be going against facts to say there's only love.

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Is that the ideal is that maybe what our goal

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is to strive towards. Yes, And I mean I hope

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we just cross over and there's only love, but maybe

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it's like thirty dimensions down the line, because otherwise I

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don't think like a Hitler or I mean, I'll leave

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politics out of it, but you know, people you know

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would be here, so you know, like, yeah, Hitler are

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serial killers.

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Right right?

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I understand what you're saying, And I think we could

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debate this for a long time because I love it

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and I love playing Devil's advocate. Very quickly, though, I

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will say that could it not be that when we

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are in that other plane, we are perfection? Right love,

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we are goodness incarnate. It's the act of coming into

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the three dimensional space where we forget our divinity that

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then we become human and have the foibles that come

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along with being human. From the get there's a school

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of thought that says that we are perfect, but when

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we come here and become human, that's when our foibles

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take over. Our emotions are greed, right, There's no doubt,

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especially in this country, that greed is a runaway problem

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right now.

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And I think greed is the cause.

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Of a lot of our challenges and our problems, and

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I think that's because of the human condition when we

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all just want more and more and more, right, that

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competitive edge we've had since we were cavemen, right.

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I mean, I sincerely hope we just all a crossover

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and it's pure love. But I think from what we

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know with near death experiences, and I think this would

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make the most sense, is that you go through life

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review where you're really accountable. My thought that we and

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again philosophy not evidence aside from the life review, my

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thought that it would just we're all just so advanced

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and then come here. It's kind of like, well, why

269
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come here? Maybe this is the step working towards that,

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but pure love, I mean, who wouldn't want that to

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be true? I mean, I will be really happy if

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that's the case. Right, But my guess is maybe we're

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much more, like much more advanced than what we are

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here and it's the next step. But I still do

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think there's some form of progress. I mean, you look

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at a two year old and they have a fight

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and they're screaming at each other, and like someone takes

278
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the one two year old's toy and they throw like

279
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sand in the sandbox in the other's face and to

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them grown ups, And again I'm sure there's exceptions of

281
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really horrible traumatic homes, but overall, grown ups look like

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they don't have problems because you never see adults act

283
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that way. But then there's this whole other slew of problems.

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And when you look back at being two, you're like,

285
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oh my god, I can't believe. I was upset that

286
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my friend wanted to play with my teddy bear for

287
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a two minus and my parents made me give it

288
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to them for five minutes to learn to share, and

289
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that was the worst thing that ever happened. And you

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just have such a perspective. But then we have a

291
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whole other slew of problems that a two year old

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wouldn't necessarily understand, and we deal with them in a

293
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way a two year old wouldn't observe. And if I

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could guess, it's something like that as you progress. But

295
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I also think, if you just are that and you

296
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come here, why come here? Although I yeah, I mean,

297
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I definitely don't think it's like I think evils more

298
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complex than just evil, but I do think there are evil.

299
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Energy is probably I don't know, but I have a

300
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hard time believing it's just love and an only just

301
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human that makes things. Something's horrible. I think we have

302
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to look at the facts that there is a lot

303
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of horrible and a lot of good and both are true.

304
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And what is the source We don't know yet, But

305
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I do think we have an innate drive to move

306
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towards love and good. I mean feeling anger and hatred

307
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and it's a horrible feeling. We don't but this is

308
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such a complicated philosophy. It's this is all just kind

309
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of playing with ideas. I can't say I'll killing you, and.

310
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That's really what we're doing here, right.

311
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I love the debate over dinner, over coffee, over a drink,

312
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trying to be Devil's advocated and trying to look at

313
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it in the philosophical point of view from different perspectives

314
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.359
is all great. But I do want to talk specifically

315
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about you and how you got into this space, because

316
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the death of a loved one is always incredibly traumatic,

317
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.400
and some people handle it in different ways. You ran

318
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in the direction of is their life after death? Because

319
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I assume you wanted to make contact in some way

320
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where others might have just oh, well, he's gone and

321
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moved on to life. You drove into it in a

322
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very sincere way. So I want to hear about that

323
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before we move forward.

324
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Yeah, there's two tears I think to that first, just

325
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the innate, like shattering grief and just that moment of desperation. Actually,

326
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even before I thought of and found the research of

327
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.599
doctor Jim Tucker, my immediate thought was, is there a

328
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.119
way to turn back time? Since I started fine, you know,

329
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:42.640
reading about time, Einstein's theory of time relativity and so

330
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.680
much of science fiction has ended up coming true. Is

331
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there some scientific way to turn back time? And you know,

332
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one day in like five thousand years, someone will know

333
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to go back and get my dad at this day

334
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when medicine is significantly better. And so that was just

335
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the very first thought. I didn't I think it was practical,

336
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but it was sort of the only place I knew

337
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to go to. And so from there I was so

338
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fascinated by what I discovered about the relativity of time

339
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and just our universe is all significantly different than we perceive,

340
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and then finding the research of doctor Jim Tucker, and

341
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it became a combination of this desperation to see my

342
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:28.640
dad again and not just think he was obliterated, facing

343
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my own mortality and other ones mortality, and just this

344
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mind blown fascination, like if you have never ever thought

345
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something like an afterlife was possible. Aside from my guess

346
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when I was very little, like my parents told me

347
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some like cute story of heaven. Then I was a

348
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little older and they're like, oh, yeah, that was like

349
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you can think of that like Santa Claus and the

350
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Easter money pretty much. You know, that was obviously what

351
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you tell a child about death and just it was both.

352
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If this was to be true, this was the most

353
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remarkable thing I could have made in terms of happiness.

354
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I just it would be unfathomable, and it just some

355
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existential dread would change, and scientifically, just the most fascinating thing.

356
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Like think about when you're a child and you have

357
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I guess, this fantasy of finding its hidden door to

358
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a whole new secret world. It's like, this is existing.

359
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This is the most amazing scientific breakthrough. The only thing

360
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that I could imagine equating that would be opening a

361
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door and walking into a room and seeing colors I'd

362
00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.920
never seen before, or finding out you can space travel

363
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to a new galaxy with different species, not even our

364
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Solar system, like a whole or galaxy, a whole new

365
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galaxy and just it had that level of fascination as

366
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well as you know, realistic hope I could see my

367
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.960
dad and could continue living myself. So that was what

368
00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:53.599
just propelled me and propelled me, and I can go

369
00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.279
more into what I learned and experience if you'd like.

370
00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:58.440
Yeah, no, we're definitely going to do that. Just to

371
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.279
clear for your dad passed away from medical complications.

372
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.440
Yes, yeah, I hate had a stroke, gotcha.

373
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:07.839
Yep. When you mentioned someone traveling back in time and

374
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.480
getting the medicine he needed to make himself better, I

375
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:12.519
wanted to clarify that. I assumed that the way that

376
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.400
you researched whether there was life after death was by

377
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:18.960
reaching out to psychic mediums and things like that to

378
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.000
see if you can make contact. Were you able let's

379
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.920
just jump to the spoiler. Were you able to make

380
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:24.720
contact with your dad?

381
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:31.160
I'm pretty sure I did? Yes, and oh yeah. After

382
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:35.839
doing the research. It took me reading multiple studies and

383
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:39.319
books and up to quintuple blinded studies on mediumship and

384
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:43.799
taking some classes at the Ryan Education centered all this

385
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:46.519
logical science and reading it and reading it before I

386
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.119
was like, maybe this might sound crazy, but maybe I'll

387
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.680
go get a medium reading and go to some medium workshops,

388
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.880
and my very first reading, she knew stuff she could

389
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.559
not have known. I hide my identity. I wasn't like, Hi,

390
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:05.039
I'm Elizabeth Edon, here's my credit card, here's my email

391
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:09.960
and phone number. Yes, yes, exactly. I'm like, you're in

392
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:14.880
none of that. And she was amazing, and I was like,

393
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.559
what the fuck, Like I just saw someone in front

394
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.440
of my face to fi the laws of the universe.

395
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.720
It was like I had chills. She brought in my dad,

396
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:27.279
my grandma, my cat. I was just like wow, amazed,

397
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.359
and I just remember leaving and turning to my mom,

398
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.920
who I may come out with me, but she went

399
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.880
into a different room. She wouldn't come in. She thinks

400
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.200
this is all crazy. But I just turned to her

401
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.720
and I was like, oh my god, I think this

402
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.519
is real. And from there I was just so amazed.

403
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.079
I'm like I have to see this again. So I

404
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.880
started getting other medium ratings, and it was across the board,

405
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.160
like I had quite a few where I think they

406
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.279
were very honest hearted but not very accurate. I had

407
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.359
a couple that I was like, oh, they are completely

408
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.680
full of shit and they know it. Yeah, And then

409
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.960
I had more that. I was just like, they could

410
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.759
not have known this, and it just it's so profound.

411
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:16.359
It's just like, yeah, like getting or getting to travel intergalactically,

412
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:20.359
getting to jump into another dimension of string theory. It's

413
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:25.039
just I almost know the words for how profound it was. Yeah.

414
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.519
Now, have you had any experience with the organization that

415
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.839
studies near death experiences?

416
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.519
Oh? Yeah, yeah, I've read a lot of gone to

417
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:35.359
some of their zoom talk, especially when we were all

418
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:38.559
in quarantine. I think really highly of them.

419
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:38.839
Right.

420
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:43.160
So, because there are a lot of scientifically minded people

421
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.880
in that organization, which is great, then you have the

422
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.720
people who are just full on in the WU and

423
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.839
I find it, I find it really interesting to see

424
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.880
the dynamic between that whole group windre in the same

425
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:53.440
room together.

426
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.519
But how long did.

427
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.559
It take from the time that your father passed when

428
00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:59.960
you started looking into this in earnest to the moment

429
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:03.319
you got your psychic medium reading that went huaw and

430
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:06.160
changed your whole world? How long was that the research?

431
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.000
See I got my first reading, she said I had

432
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.279
to wait till my dad. Iviously, I didn't tell her

433
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:14.519
it was my dad, so my person I had to

434
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.960
wait until they had been gone at least six months.

435
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.119
That's what this specific woman said. And I was on

436
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.640
another woman's waitlist who has a really long waitlist. So

437
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.200
I ended up going to her workshops, but I hadn't

438
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.079
gotten a reading with her, So this woman, I guess,

439
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.680
let's see, it was maybe about eight months after my research,

440
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.400
after I started my research that I got my first reading.

441
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:38.440
Okay, yeah, it's interesting. Six months.

442
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.599
I hadn't heard that number. I think I heard forty days.

443
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.039
It has to be, but I did hear. It's consistent

444
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:44.920
with you have to wait a certain amount of time

445
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.200
because I guess the soul has to get acclimated or

446
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:48.880
whatever it is.

447
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.119
Different mediums say different things. I have come to think

448
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.119
it's just a personal choice of the mediums, and each one,

449
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.880
I'm sure has their own reasons for saying it. But

450
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.039
I've or heard of mediums have someone come in that

451
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:07.960
day and you know, I maybe I mean, I'm gonna

452
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:10.440
I don't know. I'd have to respect and ask why

453
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.160
each one says what they say. But there isn't a

454
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.759
consistency in that. I have heard some say they will

455
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.680
say that because they just having someone that early in grief,

456
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.160
they don't feel comfortable with They feel the person needs

457
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.319
to process, They feel could be dangerous for them psychologically,

458
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.599
like they're not therapists. They feel they don't want to

459
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.359
take them on that early. But each one so some

460
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.640
of them it's ethics, some of them maybe the way

461
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.799
their vibrations work they can't connect until six months. I

462
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.279
don't specifically know for each of them, but they all

463
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:43.319
have different reasons.

464
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.240
It's interesting to hear you talk because you are very

465
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.599
pragmatic in lots of different ways, and you just talked

466
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.960
about different vibrations that different people have. That doesn't really

467
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.599
fit into that box. So I'm fascinated in the time

468
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:58.240
between twenty fifteens, that year dead past and now it's

469
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.519
almost ten years. Have you seen a progression of change.

470
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.200
In you as you go? Are you starting to lean

471
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.680
more towards maybe some more WU material or is this

472
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:13.279
are you very much sticking to this is scientific and

473
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:15.480
there's nothing that can change my mind.

474
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:19.400
I guess you can say I'm leaning more towards what

475
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.200
people could call WU, but with a non WO approach,

476
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:27.519
I think I guess I'll go to things have happened

477
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:31.920
that would be defined as WU. But I think In

478
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:35.400
the end, everything science science is just explains the facts

479
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.480
of how things work. So I think this happened. There's

480
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.480
a quote actually by doctor Ian Stevenson. I'm not saying

481
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.319
it's true. I'm just saying it happened. So these things

482
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:47.200
are happening, and I won't use I think when you

483
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.279
get into WU there's using somewhat of unrelatable words and

484
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:54.640
an acceptance that of just belief, and you're not trying

485
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:59.119
to get data. So I will say this happened. I

486
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:02.279
don't know what to say about it, but at this

487
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.039
aspect verified it. This was just a weird thing that

488
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.759
happened that wasn't verifiable. I would like to try to

489
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:14.559
verify it more and putting it all together using factual language.

490
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:16.440
Like an example, just quickly, let's say you take an

491
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:20.359
out of body experience and someone goes out and to me,

492
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.960
the word vibration isn't so woo because it's literally a

493
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:29.279
physical experience, and even stranger I will talk. Yeah, So

494
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.519
when I've tried to do out of body exercises, I

495
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:35.079
will feel waves and what is literally vibration. It's like

496
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.240
what would be used a vibration if you took like

497
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.920
you stood on like a vibrating plate, you know, which

498
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.519
is what the gym classes I go to, and I'll

499
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.359
feel them a few feet above my body. I can't

500
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.160
say I know why I'm doing that. So if you

501
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.880
take a woo for lack of a better word, approach,

502
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.599
you'd say, I rose into the energetic field and I

503
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:57.319
felt like the angels around me. And if you're to

504
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:02.079
take a science based approach, I say, I felt as

505
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.319
if there were waves of vibrations, and if the nerves

506
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:08.160
of my body, instead of ending at my skin, ended

507
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:10.640
a few feet above. And that's just the facts. I'm

508
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.319
not adding more to it. So what's the next step.

509
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:15.480
The next step is to try to get better and

510
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:17.960
see if I can go verify something if it really

511
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.279
is out of body? Can I actually start to get

512
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:25.880
senses and physiological senses like eyesight and smell. And some

513
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.319
people have and they report back then with facts that

514
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.640
they were able to verify. So that is the next step.

515
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:34.839
So I just try to report only the facts and

516
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:40.759
not draw conclusions beyond what I can get from actual facts.

517
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.640
Sure makes perfect sense. So I got to ask a question,

518
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.279
have you yourself been able to leave your body?

519
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:52.160
I don't know, So is that leaving my body when

520
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.880
I feel sensations a few feet above? Maybe I've had

521
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.200
dreams of going to places that were then verified, But

522
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.559
what is that? Is that leaving my body? Is that

523
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.440
remote viewing, which I guess ob out of body experiences

524
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.359
OBEs versus remote viewing could be described as I come

525
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.000
over to your place and I say, oh, you have

526
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:17.440
that blue cup on your table, versus work here on video,

527
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.279
which would more be remote viewing. Oh I see that

528
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.240
blue cup on your table. We don't know know's how

529
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:30.160
it works. I was I out of body? Was I

530
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.440
getting was I remote viewing? Was I psychically reading somebody

531
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.359
and then saw what they saw? I don't know, but

532
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:39.960
some people will say they've gone out of body, and

533
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.400
I will believe them when they have been able to

534
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:45.200
verify where they felt they were out of body, They

535
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.119
felt sensations, they visited somebody, and they came or a

536
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.079
place and came back with information about that person or place.

537
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:54.640
And other people have even verified and said, oh, you know,

538
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:56.799
maybe they visit someone who's a medium and they'll say, oh,

539
00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:58.839
I saw you, you were out of body at this time,

540
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:01.720
and something corroborates.

541
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:04.599
So then they've kind to bring it back to something

542
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.039
you said earlier. It's fascinating to think about it. Is

543
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.279
it something that someone psychically or whatever esp Wise telepathy

544
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:15.799
receive that information from you and then you spit it

545
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.440
out saying this that whatever, could the psychic medium, instead

546
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:25.680
of actual having contact with your dearly departed dad, gotten

547
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.559
the information from you psychically and that's what you heard.

548
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.759
That is one of the big questions I actually, doctor

549
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.400
Julie Bischel, I have a few responses to this. First

550
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.319
of all, there's actual studies done by Windbridge to test

551
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:44.039
for just that, and they, for example, one of the

552
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:49.240
ways they do highly blinded readings where the sitter goes

553
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.799
and takes down all the information. The sitter is the

554
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:55.160
one who the medium is giving the information to, and

555
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.440
the sitter doesn't actually know I guess they're called proxyitter.

556
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.359
They actually don't know who the reading is for. It's

557
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.920
one of the experimenters out of I don't know what

558
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:12.440
pool or volunteer experimenters, and so how could the medium

559
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:16.880
be reading the mind of that sitter. So then I

560
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.880
mean you can look at one Bridge for all the details,

561
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.519
but essentially the person they're giving information too does not know.

562
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:25.960
Then there's another part where mediums have given me information

563
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.720
I thought was wrong and said no and clarified with

564
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.920
somebody else, one of my friends who's a medium. This

565
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.599
was early in our friendship, so she didn't know much

566
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.640
about me. My uncle had recently passed. I purposely did

567
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:42.640
not tell her that, and she I'd always thought he

568
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.319
was over six feet. He was under six feet. I'm

569
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.400
really angry about it. But I was ever told that.

570
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:49.400
I didn't even know because I guess he was really angry,

571
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:51.200
and he was young and my parents were older parents,

572
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:52.839
so like by the time he was older in middle

573
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.279
age when I was born, he wasn't talking about it anymore.

574
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:58.839
But she kept saying he's just under six feet, and

575
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.000
I kept saying no, and it was true. And that's

576
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:03.559
not the only bit of information. And this has come

577
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:07.599
up repeatedly in research. Now. Another part of this is mediums.

578
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.880
I've got to trust them at this point, once we've

579
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.039
passed scientific studies. Once I know, I mean, I wouldn't

580
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:16.400
go on this alone. But they say it feels completely different.

581
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.079
They'll describe it in different ways. And now there's one

582
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.599
medium who even says she sees psychic information on once.

583
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.000
She likes sees a screen and see psychic information on

584
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.079
the left and mediumship on the right. I might have

585
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:31.599
reversed it. But she's also studied highly by scientists. She's

586
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.359
had her brain scanned and the brain activity in psychic

587
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:37.079
versus medium shows up differently.

588
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:38.400
It's fascinating.

589
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:39.839
That's amazingly insane.

590
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:41.039
Right, quick question.

591
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:42.759
I do want to talk to you about the book

592
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.960
in the podcast, but before we do that, a question

593
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.119
jumps into my mind. Because you've had a lot of

594
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.759
experience with psychic mediums. I know there's an organization out

595
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:53.079
there that certifies mediums. We had him on the show

596
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:55.920
to talk about his organization that he founded, which I

597
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.880
think is fantastic, and they actually have a website where

598
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.440
here the mediums that are actually certified as and they

599
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:06.160
have to be one hundred percent they can't have any

600
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.920
single thing incorrect.

601
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:10.839
That's not true. Actually, yeah, So I'm very bald with

602
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:14.440
Forever Family Foundation. Bob and his late wife fran Ginsberg

603
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:18.160
were my abbosite mentors. Using Fran was just one of

604
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:18.880
the hardest things.

605
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:20.200
So you knew you knew fannin.

606
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.599
I knew her very well.

607
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.000
She got that's amazing because when we met Bob, she

608
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:24.759
had already passed.

609
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:29.440
Uh yeah, yeah, fran Is like, I feel yeah, she

610
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.440
was probably one of the most important people in my

611
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.039
life the past few years. So yes, I know, Fran

612
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.000
very very well.

613
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.279
I was only the person. They have to be one

614
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.319
hundred percent accurate. That that's not the case.

615
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.640
That is not the case. No medium is one hundred

616
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:46.519
percent accurate. They have to be significantly accurate, beyond the

617
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:50.400
odds of chance. So for example, let's say I'll take

618
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:56.559
a random person. Let's say they lost their grandmother, Sarah

619
00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:01.559
who so medium might sit there and say name like Sarah, Sarah,

620
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:06.000
I'm getting a grandmother energy on your mother's side. She

621
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:11.920
died at seventy. She was a high school teacher, had

622
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:18.199
two children, and she rode horses, and that's really significant.

623
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.880
Let's say she was not a high school teacher and

624
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.599
that was wrong. Let's say she did not ride horses,

625
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.599
but the rest is really impressive. So that would still

626
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:28.800
be a medium who passed.

627
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:32.920
Okay, and well, then I apologize to all those psychic medums.

628
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:34.519
So I called a fraud in my mind when they

629
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:38.840
were wrong with one thing. So sorry you about that, right, But.

630
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.480
If they're getting most wrong, or if a mediums aren't

631
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.880
getting everything right, but it's general, Like you have a

632
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:45.599
thirty year old sitting in front of you, and you're

633
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.880
like you've had a lot of loss, Like you don't

634
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:50.880
have any living great grandparents? Am I right? And you know,

635
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.360
you know, I see that your great grandmother they sort

636
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.960
of were in like that traditional role, and your great

637
00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:59.119
grandfather was too, like the male female. They had a

638
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:02.079
lot of children. Like there's things that just can be

639
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.840
very general, generation based, and some of those mediums might

640
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:10.760
be frauds. They might be really genuine hearted and just

641
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:14.079
get very general information and maybe just haven't pushed themselves

642
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.840
to be evidential because maybe their clients haven't acquired it,

643
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:19.880
or maybe they're just things are popping. Like I've taken

644
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:24.800
mediumship classes and I've sat with people and given them readings,

645
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:28.519
and information is coming into my head. That's really logical

646
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:30.960
because I'm doing the assignments. I'm told to say what

647
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.920
comes into my head, and I know it's coming logically,

648
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:37.199
and I'm trying to be right to do the assignment

649
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:41.880
because I'm there. But and the person depending who are

650
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.440
either maybe they're very believing or I'm in the class

651
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:46.360
with them, and they're trying to be respectful, and they're like, oh,

652
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:48.960
you're good, you're getting everything right. I'm like right, but

653
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.840
of course I am, because there's just certain things any

654
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:54.800
person can deduce, right, sure, sure.

655
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.280
So then do you think that the only way to

656
00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:59.800
make sure you don't get swindled by psych medium moves

657
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:03.079
us foolish is to just not give them any information

658
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.079
at all, to be a complete blank slate or are

659
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:06.360
there are other ways that you can make sure that

660
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.119
doesn't happen to you.

661
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.519
I think that it's a fine line. In the beginning,

662
00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:15.159
I was just like, give nothing. I think I think

663
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:21.039
it's a fine line. I think take protocols give you know,

664
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.159
hide your identity as much as you can, and when

665
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:27.800
you're sitting there, I mean you have to let them

666
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.280
lead a little bit, but you can afterwards be like, oh,

667
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.719
that was like bullshit. But I think if they if

668
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.800
they come in and the first thing they say is yeah,

669
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:40.840
it really is a fine line because I did it

670
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.400
too much of like not say anything in the beginning,

671
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:48.079
and scientific studies like again, if you read like the

672
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:51.199
research studies like doctor Jillie Bisch, you literally give nothing

673
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:56.559
but you know, when you're getting a reading, it's a

674
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:59.239
fine line. You know, don't give them more than they

675
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.639
ask for. If they're like, I'm getting like a teen named,

676
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:04.880
I'll be like, oh my god, that's my brother. I

677
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.159
can't believe he's here and he I miss him so much.

678
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:11.280
We were twins. Don't do that. Say yes, and then

679
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.000
if they ask for a little more, if they're like, oh,

680
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.280
I'm just not getting like I'm getting he's your generation,

681
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.760
but not more than that, then you can say, okay,

682
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.960
he was my twin. Or if you're understanding something and

683
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.320
they're not, and you can tell like, let's say I

684
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:35.039
don't know like you okay, so I'm giving a little

685
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:39.559
my own evidence here, but you know, okay, like I

686
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:41.400
got a few readings in the beginning where they're like,

687
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.320
he was your dad either hurting a fire or was

688
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.519
he a fireman? Who's the fireman? Why am I hearing fire?

689
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:52.440
Fire Island was really important in our family as a child,

690
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:56.079
So maybe they're seeing a fire because you are working

691
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.480
with humans. So my dad would be like fire dollar,

692
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:02.400
fire island fire, So they're just seeing fire because fire

693
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.920
Island isn't any place they've ever heard of or been.

694
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.000
Let's say, so they're saying, so he's giving them because

695
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.440
it's not like it's not as good as being on

696
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.480
the phone. It's just not. If it was, we wouldn't

697
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.679
be questioning and studying. If there was an afterlife, we

698
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:21.280
would know. So if you just sit there and are

699
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.920
so literal that you say no, then you're not going

700
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:27.360
to get more. But if you say in that situation,

701
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.000
I would say, yeah, there's something. I'd be like, not exactly,

702
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.360
but fire makes sense. Can you give me a little more?

703
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:33.920
And if they're like, oh, I can't, you know, can

704
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:37.760
you give me some more? Then you yeah. And then

705
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:39.840
I'd say Fire Island is where I went in the summers.

706
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.079
And maybe suddenly they're like, oh my god, yes that's it.

707
00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:44.639
That feels right. And I believe they say that feels

708
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:48.800
right because they're certified by Forever Family or Windbridge, and

709
00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:52.039
they got quite a bit of information, Like they got

710
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:53.960
the letter of my dad. They don't always get the name,

711
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.559
sometimes they do. They got like aspects of his personality

712
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.800
and hobbies and work. So I'm like, okay, I already

713
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.039
try them. And so then if I say, yes it

714
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:05.800
was Fire Island, my readings can be that much better

715
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.599
because that's, oh, that makes so much sense. Let's see

716
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.199
if we can go further with that, and maybe they

717
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:13.440
get a specific memory from that. I think if if

718
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:15.760
you're not doing what I'm doing, where it's really about research,

719
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.400
and you go to a medium and they're not getting

720
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:21.599
after information and they're trying to ask you a lot

721
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.960
of questions. Because I've experienced this and it's clear they're fishing,

722
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.159
I will start to let them lead and go along

723
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:32.000
with it because it helps my research. If I really

724
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:34.920
just wanted this reading for itself and I wasn't getting

725
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.559
readings regularly and exploring, you have a right to say

726
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:42.760
don't wait like forty minutes in, but after like five

727
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.119
or ten minutes if everything you're saying is no an

728
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.559
ethical medium will say, and this has happened to me,

729
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:53.079
I'm so sorry, I'm not getting the information that you need.

730
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:56.679
I'm not connecting. We can end this now and I'll

731
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.840
refund you, or you can come back and like am

732
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.039
and we'll see if it's better. So it's all a balance.

733
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.519
I think the way to prevent getting swindled don't give

734
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.400
your information upfront, don't make it Google a ball. Then

735
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.960
once you're there, it's really it's refined, and just don't

736
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:17.280
pour out. Just try to say yes, no or maybe

737
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.039
until there's a reason to say anything more than that,

738
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:22.639
and then the other. This is just one of the things.

739
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.079
I mean, some people might just be like, well obviously,

740
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:29.480
but nevertheless, people when you're in grief or trauma, your

741
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.719
brains don't work the same way. So there is it

742
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:34.280
is absolutely not on you if this has happened to

743
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.360
you in any way. But some mediums which had happened

744
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:40.480
to me told me I had like bad energy around me,

745
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.800
and she sold three hundred dollars candles that would cure it.

746
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.840
Anyone who tries to sell do not, do not, do not.

747
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.679
That doesn't mean if you know, if you're like, oh,

748
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:52.719
you know, I'd love to try to say it geting

749
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.840
again then or another reading or something, Yeah, you're gonna

750
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:57.920
have to pay for another service. But they don't try

751
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.000
to sell up any epsisse you.

752
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:02.400
Have a curse on your family and I can lift

753
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:03.280
it for five hundred dollars.

754
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:05.480
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

755
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:08.159
So I do want to talk to you about your

756
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:11.559
book and your podcast. Wtf just happened?

757
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:12.360
Yes?

758
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.920
Was the book first, Or was the podcast first? Which

759
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:16.199
came first? Chick into the Egg.

760
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:20.840
Book came way first. The podcast. Yes, the podcast was

761
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.679
one of those I'm lonely and alone in my room

762
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:26.320
and isolated over quarantine. I want to talk to our people.

763
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:28.519
Let me just try a podcast. It'll be fun. And

764
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.000
then it was so much more fun than I expected,

765
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:34.679
and I taught myself podcast. It was just ended up

766
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.960
being an addition. But now something I definitely want to

767
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.400
stick with.

768
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.320
We've talked all this time about afterlife and psychic mediums.

769
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:44.280
Is that what you show in your book is about

770
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:45.800
or is it?

771
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.800
Does it dive a little bit more into other things?

772
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:51.679
So my book, it's another one's going to be coming

773
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:57.239
out at some point and it soon. So my book

774
00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.920
which Alex, my wife, said that. So my books start

775
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.039
with from when my father first got really sick to

776
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:11.440
about maybe like two to three years after and all

777
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.559
the research I had done in my experiences. Then it

778
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.039
talks some It doesn't start with mediums. It starts with

779
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:18.199
the research of doctor Jim Tucker, and it starts with

780
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.639
kind of how I'm like, oh my god, what the fuck?

781
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:25.079
Like there actually seems to be some evidence, but there

782
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.159
has to be a catch. And it starts with how

783
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:29.599
I keep going further and further with this and then

784
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:33.719
start meeting the people, and then you know, so much

785
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.039
has happened since the book ended, so much like I've

786
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:38.639
gotten This is just you know, when I first start

787
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:40.199
meeting the people and now I've gotten to know them

788
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.320
really well and have participated with them in experiments and

789
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.679
done so much more. And that's what I'm gonna go

790
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.079
into next. So this is just the whole journey what

791
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.519
the fuck just happened of how I went from thinking

792
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:52.800
there was zero chance of it after life to all

793
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.159
these very logical reasons to why I completely changed my mind.

794
00:42:57.159 --> 00:42:59.920
And it's actually like light and funny and talks about

795
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:01.960
like all the awkward things that happened along the way,

796
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:07.159
like just yeah, I met the mediums and tried to

797
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:09.480
like see if they were cheating, and like one who's

798
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:11.519
one of my best friends now like thought I was

799
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:15.599
like a journalist trying to expose him. Just really silly

800
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:18.199
things happened along the way. And fran is a big

801
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:19.440
part of the book too.

802
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:20.320
So that was in the book.

803
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:22.239
Then, So then you do you suggest you read the

804
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:24.239
book first and then listen to the podcast.

805
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:25.679
Or can you jump in the podcast now without having

806
00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:26.320
had to read.

807
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.199
The book, you can jump into the podcast. So the

808
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:32.880
podcast is a variety. It's psychic mediums I have like,

809
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.760
it's parapsychologists like Lloyd Arbach, it's a few people who've

810
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:41.800
had personal experiences who verify it. It's near death researchers,

811
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:47.920
it's I have someone who's an animal communicator. Yeah, so

812
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.480
just it's across the board. I even have someone the

813
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.159
episode hasn't come out yet, but I'm going to have

814
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.519
ones on Out of Body. I'm gonna have once on

815
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:58.159
remote viewing. I'm gonna have a skeptic who's like a

816
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:00.679
professional skeptic who doesn't think any ya this is true,

817
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:03.199
And we just get into a really interesting conversation. And

818
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.519
that's actually one of my favorite episodes. Not ready yet,

819
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:07.840
but it's just really interesting.

820
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.800
This sounds fascinating. I can't believe that the time has

821
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:14.719
flown so fast. If someone wanted to listen to your

822
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:16.800
show or reach out to you, where we're going to add,

823
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.320
for sure those links in our show notes. But what's

824
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:21.880
the best way for someone to reach you? If they

825
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.760
are so inclined, you can.

826
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:27.840
Go to my website, which is wtf just happened? Dot

827
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.000
net because that links to everything. You can link to

828
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:32.559
my email, you can link to Amazon, you can buy

829
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:35.519
my book, you can link to all the places that

830
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.800
you can listen to my podcast or on all the

831
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:42.199
usual places. You can find me on my social media

832
00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:44.480
like Instagram and TikTok. A lot of people reach out

833
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.800
to me on Instagram. You can email me and all

834
00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:49.559
that's right on my website for you to find perfect

835
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:50.360
That's awesome.

836
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.159
This has been so much fun. We're definitely going to

837
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:52.760
add those links.

838
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.519
I'm going to connect with you offline because any friend

839
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:56.360
of Bob's a friend of.

840
00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:56.880
Mine for sure.

841
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:57.840
Thank you so much.

842
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.079
We have a lot more skeptic in position coming up,

843
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:03.840
so stay with us. We'll be right back.

844
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:20.280
We got what might be our new favorite review. This

845
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.400
one is from John Messina and he gave us a

846
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:27.000
five star review and titled it great show for those

847
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:30.440
both new and old to metaphysics. He goes on to say,

848
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.159
I'm a ups driver for work, so I've got a

849
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.679
lot of podcasts listening time because of this. I've listened

850
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.679
to almost every episode of the show. Amazing. I've believed

851
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.199
in many if not all of the modality spoken about

852
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.320
on this podcast. For as long as I can remember,

853
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.039
I felt weird for just having a knowing about certain things,

854
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.280
and because of my knowing, I always understood that the

855
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:54.719
world around me wasn't ready to talk about this stuff yet,

856
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:57.000
so I kept it to myself forever.

857
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:57.639
The chameleon.

858
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:01.559
I still explored it well in my twenties, diving into

859
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.400
all sorts of mind expanding situations and discussions with the

860
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:08.119
few I knew would hear and understand me. Then I

861
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:10.280
got a big boy job, and that part of me

862
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:13.480
stayed on the back burner for a few years. Well,

863
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:15.559
a few months back, I was craving something that could

864
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:19.800
connect to on all levels. Enter the skeptic metaphysicians. After

865
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:23.480
a brief Google search for best podcasts that discussed metaphysics,

866
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:26.079
I found this podcast at the top of the list,

867
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:30.079
So naturally I dove in. Fast forward about four months

868
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.760
and I only have a couple of episodes left. My

869
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.079
only complaint is that there isn't a few hundred more episodes,

870
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.360
but I guess I should have paced myself better, so

871
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:42.559
that's on me. You guys are great. Thank you for

872
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.840
all the work you do. And making me feel normal.

873
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:50.039
And folks, that's the most important part of this review.

874
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.800
This last sentence re says, thank you for making me

875
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:58.239
feel normal. And that's a very powerful statement because a

876
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.760
lot of us are feeling this seismic shift that is

877
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.719
happening in our world right now, and a lot of

878
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:08.840
us are feeling weird and off, and this stuff, if

879
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:11.159
it speaks to us, if it resonates with us, sometimes

880
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:14.559
it makes us feel like we're not right, that we're

881
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.159
not normal. And the fact that we're diving into these

882
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:21.400
things we're showcasing, we're showing that these things, these feelings

883
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:26.280
are coming inside of you, they're normal. We're all real,

884
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:31.239
normal people going through an awakening en mass. So if

885
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:35.440
you've ever felt abnormal, then take it from John. This

886
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:40.920
is the show for you because we are normalizing these conversations. John,

887
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:44.400
thank you. Thank you so much for sending us this

888
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:48.360
review and for being such an avid listener of our show.

889
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:51.360
We can't do it without you, and we really appreciate you.

890
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.159
If you would like to hear your review read on

891
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.519
the air, just go to Skeptic Metaphysicians dot com. You

892
00:47:57.559 --> 00:47:59.960
can either leave us a review they are written or

893
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.280
or go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review

894
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:06.559
written there, or if you prefer to speak your mind,

895
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:09.159
you can always go to skeptic metaphsicition dot com, hit

896
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:12.039
the leave us a voicemail tab and record us a

897
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:16.079
voicemail that we would possibly air on the show. Thanks again, John,

898
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:22.440
and thank you for listening to the show. Thanks for

899
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:24.960
coming along on this journey discovery with us. We'd love

900
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.079
to continue our conversation with you on our website at

901
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:31.800
Skeptic Metaphysician dot com or on Facebook and Instagram under

902
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:35.760
Skeptic Metaphysician podcast. If you know someone who would benefit

903
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.320
from hearing the messages we're sharing on the show, do

904
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:41.480
them and us a favor and share the show with them.

905
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:44.159
It will help get the word out about us and

906
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:47.800
it may just change someone's life for the better. And

907
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:49.320
if you're listening to this on the radio and you

908
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:51.800
missed something while, not to worry. All of our shows,

909
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.960
including this one, can be found at Skeptic Metaphysician dot com.

910
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:58.400
We can also watch the videos or even send us

911
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:02.480
an email or voicemail directly from the site. We absolutely

912
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.039
love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you.

913
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:08.760
I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as we have.

914
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.599
That's all for now.

915
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:13.760
We'll see you on the next episode of Dyskeptic Metaphysicians.

916
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.960
Until then, take care,