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Spiritual Awakening

What if your thoughts weren’t really “you”?

In this groundbreaking episode, we’re joined by Belgian-born inventor, global wellness facilitator, and author Clément Decrop, whose concept of the Idea Space is changing the way we understand the mind, ego, and consciousness itself.

Clément breaks down the illusion of the self, and how identifying too strongly with our thoughts, names, and roles can block true spiritual awakening. He blends cutting-edge neuroscience, physics, and mindfulness practices into a powerful new model for understanding our inner world.

But that’s not all…

Clément is also the visionary behind a revolutionary AI-powered meditation app that personalizes guided meditations based on your daily experiences. Want a custom meditation for your chaotic workday, your breakup, or even a trip to the beach? This app learns from you and adapts over time...offering bite-sized, deeply personal spiritual support that goes way beyond generic calming sounds.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

  • What the Idea Space really is, and how it mirrors the observable universe
  • The science behind the Non-Self and why shedding your identity could lead to inner peace
  • How meditation helps you “observe” your mind like a scientist, not silence it
  • Why we’re stuck in a loop of imagined fears, and how to shift into objective clarity
  • How AI and consciousness are intersecting in wild and unexpected ways
  • Why synchronicity and presence are the keys to real transformation, and how to notice more of them
  • The inside scoop on Clément’s new AI meditation app; what it does, how it works, and how it’s safeguarded from “AI creepiness”

Favorite Quotes:
“Your name is an illusion...it’s just an approximation of who you are.” – Clément Decrop
“You experience the past and the future as thoughts in the present. That’s your real power.”
“True self… is non-self. When you realize that, you become free.”

Connect with Clément Decrop:

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WEBVTT

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Does your brain have a narrator who just won't shut up?

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Like mind does, like your living life, And there's this

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annoying internal voice going. You're raising your phone, you're breathing

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Today's Friday. What if I told you that voice isn't

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actually you? I guess the question suddenly turned into a

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horror movie, doesn't it? Well? In today's mind betting episode,

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we're going to dive headfirst into the idea space with inventor, author,

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and global wellness facilitator Clement de Crop. And trust me,

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this isn't your typical mindfulness chat. We're answering questions like

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what exactly is the non self? And why is forgetting

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who you think you are actually the first step to

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spiritual freedom? Also, can we scientifically model the mind like

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a physics system? And so what does that unlock? And

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how can you rewire your brain to make better decisions,

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squash your base thinking, and finally shut that narrator up

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that's in your head? Oh? Then I mentioned Clement is

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building an aipowered meditation app that literally talks to you,

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learned from you, and creates personalized meditations based on your

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exact day for you. If you've ever felt stuck between

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your spiritual awakening and your daily stress cycle. This episode

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will leave you with practical tools, probably a few existential questions.

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Let's explore the edge of science, meditation, and identity and

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maybe find your real self hiding behind all that eye.

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My name is Will, and, unlike Boulder and Scully, want

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to believe. So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.

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We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and

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metaphysical world.

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We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even

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joined a coven of witches.

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And wait, you joined a coven?

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Yep, all on the interest of finding something, anything that

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will prove that there's something beyond this physical.

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Three world we all live in.

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This is the skeptic metaphysicians.

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All right, climent, I hope I said that. Okay, But

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welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's

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a pleasure with you to here.

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No, the pleasure is ours, believe me. Anytime I get

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a chance to practice my French, it's a good day.

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So all right, So well, we've got a very deep

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topic to dive into. Pardon the pun. When we have

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when we have conversations about the non self. Uh, it

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opens up all kinds of crazy rabbit holes that you

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could go down. So why don't you reset the table

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and just what is your definition of the non self? Oh?

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Good question, and if you want, we can do this

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whole interview in front.

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I might get like four out of every twenty words

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that you say, but we could try.

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Next time, next time. But yeah, great starting question. So

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the idea of the non self is most simply characterized

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by the fact that your name is an illusion, right,

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It's one part of yourself. So for instance, when we

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have dogs and cats, they don't really know that they

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have a name, and then we label a name on

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to them and project that name on to them, and

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then they eventually learn it. Right, And the same thing

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goes with babies. Babies don't have any understanding of their

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names at first, and then they develop it over time. Right.

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And as humans, we live in society, and that's what

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kind of allows us to prosper in the way that

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we have to live in these homes and do the

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things that we do. But I think we lose sight

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of the fact that our names are really just another

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approximation for ourselves, right, And ourselves are always changings, right,

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and so when we say I my things of that nature,

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it's really an approximation to capture who we actually are.

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And that's kind of the idea of your non self, right,

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that I is just one layer of your true self,

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and there's all of these other fractal layers from yourselves

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to kind of like the whole observable universe if you love.

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Sure, but you know, we go through our entire lives

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identifying as the eye, as the name, as as ourselves.

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And then we're told by people like you who come

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on the show that you are supposed to forget your eye,

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get beyond the eye, and and get and join the

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collective consciousness right now.

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I have specifically been trying to do that for the

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last several years, because you know, my name has a

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interesting connotation.

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Yeah, but just don't ask for the manager, You'll be okay.

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I can never even if I need the manager, I

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cannot ask for the manager. I got suck it up, all.

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Right, So I mean that that does point to ego, right,

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And we've heard both sides of the story, right, Ego

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something you're supposed to kill, like kill your ego and

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then we've had the other side of the coin, where no,

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you don't want to kill your ego, you just want

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to not let it control you. So which one are

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we talking about here?

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Yeah, I think it's more so the latter, where it's

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just like part of the equation.

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Right.

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Obviously, there's so much associated with who you are, and

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it is like a layer of yourself in a way. Right.

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I think the conundrum is when people attach it as

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like the end all, be all truth of who you are,

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and then you play sword identity politics with whatever you

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want to identify, whether it's like politic puco party, something

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that you like to do, something you don't like to do, right,

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And then it goes back to the whole kind of

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like Buddhist beliefs of attachment and how that's kind of

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like the root of all duca or suffering or frustration

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in life. And so that's why it's so important because

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it helps unlock that aspect of life.

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Right. So, if we are always being affected by our environment,

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what's going on, our relationships, we're always changing, can we

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ever really know our true self?

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Oh man, that's a great question.

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Aha, you thought we're gonna be softballing.

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Yeah, Right, I.

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Think probably not. But it reminds me of good Alan

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Watts quote where he said true self is non self

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and so like we may not be able to ever

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experience like the true self and like the most theoretical way, right,

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but we can get close to it by like preserving

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our idea space, which is like a mental model for

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in the mind, or just having a better understanding of

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how our mind and body relates to the universe and

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lawns right, And there's kind of a lot to unpack

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there in different ways. But yeah, I think to answer

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your question, no, never perfectly, but we can get pretty

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pretty darn close.

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Oh maybe that's part of the whole reason that we're

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here is to learn that we can't really ever know.

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I don't know.

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Is that that we in the general sense or do

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you talking specifically to me, because I feel kind of

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attacked honestly, But anyway, it's all about you.

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That's kind of there it goes, I trust my case,

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Like every time you unpack something, right, there's like way

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more questions that arise out of it. So it's like

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our cool, we made a discovery onto the next song

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and it's like a never ending cycle.

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Sure, but so we want to get as close as

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we can to non self to non identification, right, identifying

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with our personality, our name, are our being in a

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physical sense. So we want to go into a space

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where we are no longer as attached to our ego

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as we have been in the past. That all sounds amazing.

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But and there's always but yes, of.

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Course it's It's not something that we've not tried to do,

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but we are constantly calming up short. So Clement, I'm

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hoping that you have the answer to how to do

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it regularly?

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Yeah, great question. And I don't know about regularly, but

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definitely in a short mindful.

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Of spurts, I'll settle for once. Just give me once.

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So going back to this concept of an idea space

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that I just touched on, and the whole concept of

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an idea space, it's like a physics space model for

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the mind. And why it's important is because if we're

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able to look at our mind objectively right through the

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same lens that we used to describe stars or a computer, right,

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like I'm not attached to my desk maybe a little bit,

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but like not asta as I would be to like

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my thoughts. Right, So if we're able to construct a

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sort of model for the mind that's in a similar light,

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then we can take one step closer to being our

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thoughts objectively. And so your idea space consists of your thoughts, emotions, sensations, perceptions,

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and the empty set, which is intuitively nothing or the

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absence of anything. And it has two key properties. The

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first is that it has zero measure, and the second

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is that it's uncountable or impermanent and always changing. And

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to test that it has zero measure, which means it

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just looks like nothing to everybody else. You can hold

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something in your hand, like your phone. I've got a

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pen right here. Clearly you can see it, right, Yeah,

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you can see me feeling it. It's measurable. But if

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I close my eyes and I bring to mind the

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mental image of the pen, then I see a mental

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image of the pen in my head, but no one

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else can see it, right, And so that's one of

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the key properties of your idea space, or are your

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thoughts that nobody else can see them, right at least

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until neurolink magically it figures out how to make computer

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bring devices. But yeah, so I think understanding your mind

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is an idea space is kind of the first step

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to be able to view your thoughts objectively and detached

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from the ego.

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Uh yeah again, sounds great. I've been meditating for a

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while and the goal has always been for me, although

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we've had people come on the show and say the

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goal is not to not think about anything, but rather

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just think about one thing the entire time you're meditating.

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But my goal has always been to reach that void,

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to be in that place where I do feel either

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can connected with everything or just disconnected to everything. But

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I just can't do it. Maybe my mind is just

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too active, so my mind space is really bonkers. So

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how can we access it in a place where it

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helps us to get to the non sells.

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Yeah, I think meditation is a huge part of it, right,

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since we have all the sciences, right, we have physics, biology, chemistry,

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and they're all great for things we could measure. But

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how do you, like you're saying, like, how do you

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apply science to something that you can't measure right to

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your mind?

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Right?

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And so like you said, like meditation is so important

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for that menindro Gy, who was a wise guru, used

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to have a quote that said, if you want to

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understand your mind, simply sit down and observe it. And

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so like you were saying, like meditation isn't really not

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having no thoughts or like having one particular thought even maybe,

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but just noticing the arising and passing of thoughts as

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they come. And the Buddha had a good quote where

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it's like one moment scene is better than a thousand

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unseen or something along those lines, right where it's the

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whole idea of when you're noticing something's happening, and to

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understand the distinction between like noticing and not noticing. It's

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this idea of just like, all right, right now, pay

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all attention to your left foot. Before this you were

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maybe paying attention to your left foot at already're like, oh,

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I forgot even had a left foot.

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Right, I'm paying attention to my butt right now because

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I'm on it, but not like that caring can't talk

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about your butt. I'm sitting on my butt talking to him,

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And anyway, my feet are not in the favorite reference. Anyway,

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you can use your butt.

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Go ahead, I'm gonna think about my foot.

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But I can see how you know, once you start

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thinking about your foot, you're not just thinking about at

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least for me, I'm not just thinking about the foot,

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I'm thinking about the details of it. And once I

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start to focus on those little details, everything else just

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kind of goes away.

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Yeah, exactly. It's like that same attention that you have

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on your foot that you can put into like other parts,

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whether it's like a thought and emotion or a sensation, right,

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And just the goal of meditation is just really like

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cone in that practice of awareness. And then hopefully it's

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like the same thing like if I bike a lot, right,

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I'm gonna get really good at biking, and then if

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I'm just plucking for fun and I'm just gonna kill

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it because that's what I've been doing, right, And so

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with meditation, it's the same way. If you meditate a lot,

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then eventually maybe I'm just going to throw on the

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beach and you know what, Wow, my awareness is kicking

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in a right.

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And I've found that it's like it's kind of like

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you have to exercise it. Because there was a while

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there that I was meditating a lot, and I remember

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going to the airport. I had a really ill friend

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and I was trying to get to there and the

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fights were delayed and I was so stressed out. I'm like,

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I'm just going to meditate, and I just like boom,

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dropped right in in the middle of this crazy airport,

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which now I'm like in this nice quiet space, and

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I'm like, I gotta do this and I gotta do that,

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and I just can't get there. I haven't been doing

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it regularly like I need to.

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It's like a muscle, right, you lose, you lose practice.

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So the my my biggest challenge is what you alluded

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to is noticing. So everyone We've talked to a lot

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of people about the more you notice the synchronicities and

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the connectedness of all things, that's that's when the magic

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starts happening. But in this world that we're in, this

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three dimensional world, we're running wake up in the morning,

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you gotta get ready, you gotta get the kid to school.

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We'll get to get to work. By that point, the

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work all day long and fight fires and come home

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and make dinner for the family and work on the

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other things and then put the kids to bed, and

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then about the time you get to bed, you're like,

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what just happened? Right? So for me, the hardest part

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is in the slowing down is in the finding a

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way to because I think back at the end of

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the day, what special happened in my life? And I

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can't remember anything because I'm so caught up in the

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riff raft in the every day come and go of life.

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Do you have any suggestions as to how someone can

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pay more attention?

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Yeah, that's and I feel you on that man, like

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you are not alone. That life just happens sometimes. I

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think there's I think two key points. The first is

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that there's idea of like something that we need to attain, right.

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I think that's it's a good north star for keeping

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people attached to the practice. But the truth of it

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is that there's really nothing to attain.

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Right.

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There's a good quote in the Blue Cliff Record, which

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is like a list of like one hundred co ants

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that they use in Zen, where it's a if there

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is something to attain, then that is just semblance, wisdom

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and truth. There is nothing to attain. And all that

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relates to is when you're walking, you're just walking. When

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you're writing, you're just writing. When you're taking your kids

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to school, you're just driving right and your kids to school,

290
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and just really being in that moment and not trying

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to get caught up about the inaccessible past or the

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imaginary future right, which again not very easy to do.

293
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And so I think a really good exercise I found.

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I heard it from William b Irvine, who's kind of

295
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like a stoic practitioner. Dad, you have a bedtime meditation,

296
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So I like to journal sometimes before bed, not all

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the time, just like every now and then. But then

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you just write what you did in the day, right,

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woke up, went to the gym, drank a tea, read

300
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a little book, got into work, and just like trying

301
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to get into like the details of what you did

302
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on a time by time basis kind of just helps

303
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put your day into perspective and then hopefully throughout the

304
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next daye you'll be thinking about that bedtime meditation while

305
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you're doing the activity, right, and that kind of helps

306
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set an anchor point.

307
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Okay, So.

308
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I like the thought of having an anchor point, But

309
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I feel like we are kind of wasting the present

310
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away because we're so focused on the future. Now what

311
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I have to do tomorrow, and I have to do

312
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out my job because in the future, I'm going to

313
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be old and I'm gonna need health insurance. Or whatever.

314
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It's always like, So what other tips can you give

315
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us to help keep us in the present moment other

316
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than just focusing on what's coming up?

317
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Yeah, of course that's I think the breath is the

318
00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:23.240
best tool we have for just like life in general,

319
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something we do subconsciously, right. I've liked it manages all

320
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of our bodily functions, right, heart rate, like dilution of

321
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the eye, everything right, And so the key to that

322
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is like the para sympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system, like

323
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the calm, the feeder, flight, or just to digest and rest.

324
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And I think slow deep breaths helps you engage the

325
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rest and digest so that you can be more present

326
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in the moment. And I think also I'm a big

327
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proponent of Coan's, which are like these public cases in

328
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Japanese zen, which allows us to like have some sort

329
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of understanding of the world. And one of those coents

330
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for me is a quote by Joseph Goldstein, who is

331
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who said you experienced the past as a thought in

332
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the present, and you experience the future as a thought

333
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in the present. And it's simple, but just like that

334
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understanding of like the truth is like so profound that

335
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whenever I find myself thinking about the future, I'm like,

336
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oh wait, what am I I'm being? Of course, Yeah,

337
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so that's that's a breathing and coming back to quotes

338
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like that helped me at least stay in the present moment.

339
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It comes to mind a business idea that I had,

340
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.720
which is like a zapper every time you start thinking

341
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:42.039
about anything anything outside the present. Okay, you know, it'd

342
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:43.440
be a great way to keep people in the present.

343
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I'm just saying, you're just walking down the street. Everybody

344
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is just getting zapped, like.

345
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Right by the way. That is copyrighted and trademark so

346
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no one's steal that idea. It's coming out.

347
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I'll help you build it.

348
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.000
Yeah. Actually, all right, let's talk about the Idea space Framework.

349
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You came here specifically you talk about nesting ideas within

350
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larger spaces, and you have come up with a way

351
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to help us to do all the stuff that we're

352
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talking about. And talk to us about the idea space Framework.

353
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:16.359
Yeah. I touched on a little bit of the beginning, right,

354
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like what its elements are, and your thoughts, emotions and

355
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safets and perceptions and the teak two key properties, right,

356
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.440
it has zero measure and it's uncountable and always changing.

357
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But like what does that even mean? Right, Like why

358
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does that even matter? And I think a good way

359
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.319
to put it on into perspective is this concept of

360
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the sunset conjecture, and the sunset conjecture is it's like,

361
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imagine you're on the beach, right, it's the both of you.

362
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It's sunset. It's nice to both got pina coladas in

363
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.960
your hand. No kids, You're just hanging out and chilling.

364
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.000
And as the sun said, do.

365
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We die because it sounds like you haven't, right, So like.

366
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One of you looks at the other and you're like, wow,

367
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it's beautiful. The sun's golden rays are reflecting right off

368
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the water towards me. And then the other person goes, no,

369
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you idiot. The Sun's golden rays a flecking off the

370
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water towards me. So it's this idea that everyone is

371
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at the center of their own observable universe, which is

372
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a giant sphere that's centered on you, where everything you

373
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see is in the past. And the reason everything you

374
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sees in the past is because it takes time for

375
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light to get from point A to point B. Right,

376
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it travels at one hundred eighty six thousand miles per second.

377
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So it's why when we have like the James Web telescope,

378
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we're able to see some of the earliest stars because

379
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we're just looking farther back in space, which is just

380
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it took a long time for that light to reach us.

381
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All that to say that at the center of your

382
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.359
observable universe lies your idea space, right, all your thoughts, emotions, sensations,

383
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.359
and perceptions. And so you get this kind of question

384
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.039
of like, if everything we see is in the past,

385
00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:44.000
then what is the present? And in my mind, that's

386
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.559
your idea space, right, all your thoughts, emotions and sations

387
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.680
and perceptions at the center of your observable universe. So

388
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.799
that's kind of the framework, and it really tries to

389
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.680
answer the question of how does your mind relate to

390
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the universe at large so that you can view your

391
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.920
thoughts objectively and live in the present more and just

392
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try to live a happier life.

393
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.079
So then how do you see this becoming a tool

394
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:12.680
to help with like conflict resolution and innovation, navigating spiritual awakenings,

395
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:13.279
that kind of thing.

396
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.920
Yeah, I think overall there's a huge wall, right now

397
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:19.680
I feel like in the meditation and mind from space

398
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.000
around like woo woo culture where it's just like people

399
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.799
who are like just have all backgrounds just don't want

400
00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.119
to even like step foot in it because of like

401
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:32.920
the negative connotations around it, which is like a travesty, right,

402
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Like everyone who's in the space will tell you like, no,

403
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.119
there's like there's something here, yes, And so I think

404
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.319
the biggest goal with the idea of space in general

405
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.599
is to like demystify the mysticism usually associated with meditation

406
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.440
and mindfulness and really give it that scientific grounding so

407
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.039
that people can get the benefits like peace of mind

408
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.559
and just no more just having the monkey mind just

409
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:58.160
clapping in symbols in your in your brain.

410
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:03.119
Yeah, because the Stephen King's story comes to buying your narrative. Yes, yes,

411
00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.480
I do have this narrator that won't shut up. So

412
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:06.640
I'm hoping that.

413
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:07.559
I don't have the narrator.

414
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.640
See, how is that possible? You have the name? What

415
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.759
do you have? I just I don't.

416
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.799
I just go through my day like he has like this.

417
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:17.839
Yeah, I have a very very annoying narrator that tells

418
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.359
me exactly what I'm doing. Any given a moment in time,

419
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:25.680
like if I raise my phone, I'll just he just

420
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:27.519
said it. You just raised your phone. Yes, I did.

421
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:28.880
I know I raised my phone. You have to tell

422
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.200
me that, right, I know I did it. So it's constant.

423
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.880
I'm in a shower. Oh, today's Friday. Oh yees, Today's Friday.

424
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.599
Today's Friday. Today is Friday. Oh my god, I know

425
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:39.480
today's Friday. You don't have to tell me you fifty

426
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.279
million times. So this has been And I first learned

427
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:47.640
of the narrator when I read the Surrender Experiment from

428
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.599
Mickey Singer who talked about that for the first time

429
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.160
and the sun I realized, oh my god, I have

430
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.160
the same thing. I have this voice in my head

431
00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.799
that's constantly talking about what is happening and point in time,

432
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.359
and he went to great lengths to shut it off,

433
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.200
and so I find myself constantly having to find a

434
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.480
way to shut it off. So I'm hoping that the

435
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.400
idea space framework is something that might help me to

436
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:13.720
do that.

437
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.519
Yeah, and that I love everything you said. It really

438
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.480
reminds me of a thinking fast and Slow by Daniel Kanneman.

439
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.160
It's like the whole idea of System one and System two,

440
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.079
where System one is like your more reactive self, right,

441
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:28.880
you're just kind of moving and grouping, and then System

442
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.359
two is kind of that reflective narrative self where you're

443
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.440
trying to reflect on a particular situation or deep dive

444
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.480
into something. And we're always balancing the two right, where

445
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.039
it's like, if you know what two plus two is,

446
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.720
I'm like System one go, but it's just like, what

447
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.119
is the meaning of life? I'm like, uh, all right,

448
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.079
system too, try to figure it out, right.

449
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:55.000
So then you believe that you've created a an app,

450
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.359
a platform. What exactly is it that we're talking about here?

451
00:22:57.559 --> 00:22:59.680
Yeah, so a couple of different things. The first start

452
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.240
just meditation cards and get on Amazon. So we're always

453
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:04.799
spending time on our phone, so it's kind of a

454
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.440
good way to decompress without needing the phone. And then

455
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.039
coming out in like the next month or two here

456
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.079
it's a Genai meditation app, so just talk to it,

457
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.279
tell it about your day, same in our faces like chat,

458
00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:19.960
GBT or just like Google, right, and then you just

459
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:22.680
get two personalized meditations for you on the spot, uses

460
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.359
your name, uses what your like, history, what you've said before,

461
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:31.000
and really just helps create a py meditation for you

462
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.240
right in any language you want, and it's yeah, I

463
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.680
think it'll be a fun test to see how it

464
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:39.839
resonates in the world. But I feel like that was

465
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:40.799
something that was missing.

466
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.960
It is so it actually creates music and speech and

467
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.240
the whole deal. Or is it something that you read

468
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.599
to yourself? How does that work?

469
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah, so it's all Jenai based, So it writes the

470
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.440
script for you on the spot based on your input,

471
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.519
and then text the speech to convert it and bring

472
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:02.119
it to life with a beautiful voice from one of

473
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.480
someone who named Simon. He was kind enough to let

474
00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.119
me use his voice, and yeah, it's like very soothing

475
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.519
and no music yet, but that's one of the next

476
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.119
things that we integrate in there. Right now, meditation around

477
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.640
three to five minutes, but you can press a button

478
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.720
and get them to ten to twenty minutes. So it's

479
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:24.079
very flexible and it's been nice. Like yesterday, for example,

480
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.200
I want to walk on the beach, and like you both,

481
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.400
I had a very busy day or busy week, so

482
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.720
it was good to just input everything I did and

483
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:33.480
I'm like, I'm gonna go take a walk on the beach.

484
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.880
Give me a meditation, and so it's just like you're

485
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.680
in Venice Beach, go to take a walk, look at

486
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.799
the water, and it's just having it use your name,

487
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.759
and just like the exact scenario you're in is so

488
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.680
much nicer than just the one size fits all approach.

489
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.599
Of Today's gotcha. So it really is a custom tailor,

490
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:53.880
made on the spot meditation for you.

491
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.119
Yeah, and you know, I like that you have.

492
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.599
You know, you said you could expand it to longer ones.

493
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.680
But some people are so busy and you're stressed out

494
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:02.000
at work and you just need like a break and

495
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:03.839
you you know, run into your office or whatever you

496
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.160
do five minute personalized meditation. Oh my gosh, that's perfect.

497
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:09.640
And also I'm just gonna go on about what I like.

498
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.160
You know, we hear about AI and like you watch

499
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.319
the movies and it's like they're taking over and it's

500
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:17.359
always like AI freaks me out. I'm not gonna lie.

501
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.319
But now we're starting to see how people are using

502
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:22.160
it in this space. We just spoke with someone a

503
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.240
couple of days ago who is teaching AI how to meditate,

504
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.559
which is incredible. And now you're doing these meditations like Okay,

505
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.119
maybe AI isn't so scary.

506
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.599
Right, So let me just throw a little wrench on

507
00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:34.359
this the whole thing, right, Just a question, just a question,

508
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.279
because I'm sure that people listening, are watching, are there's

509
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:40.000
some people are gonna be asking this question, so I

510
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.319
don't make sure I pu get out piggybacking off of

511
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.519
what you just said. A few weeks ago, we learned

512
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:51.880
that Grock, the AI from x Twitter started spouting some

513
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:57.119
unfortunate things based on some adjustments that they made to

514
00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:03.279
the platform, which sends hugely. He started the question mark

515
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.960
about safety behind these things, especially in the meditation, which

516
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.200
is kind of hypnotic. Right. You're under You're in a

517
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.039
place where you feel like you could be swayed one

518
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.759
way or the other kind of thing or open suggestions,

519
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:21.599
So how are you battling that thought process or that image?

520
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.519
Hey there, we hope you're enjoying these conversations as much

521
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.680
as we are. If you are and you feel called

522
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.160
to give back, we invite you to visit our website

523
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.000
at Skepticmanephosition dot com, where you can donate to the

524
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:40.960
show or subscribe as a member through our Buying Me

525
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.119
a Coffee campaign. Your support will go a long way

526
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.359
towards allowing Karen and I to bring you these wonderful

527
00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:51.599
conversations and teaching in more and more robust ways. As always,

528
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.759
thank you so much for listening. Let's go ahead and

529
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.119
get on with the show.

530
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.319
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, and one of the biggest

531
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.119
questions that are it's going to come for the next

532
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.480
five ten years, right, is like AI takes over and

533
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.680
like gets implemented in robots, and robots become like humanoids

534
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.920
like eye robot all over again in real life. But

535
00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:14.319
I think the key the thing, one of the more

536
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.519
things we do is really like prompt system prompting, which

537
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.880
is kind of sets the guidelines of how the large

538
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.720
language model can respond. I'm sure with Grock it's very

539
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:29.599
like Elon's the founder, right, so like he's very free

540
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.279
speech oriented, and so free speech oriented is really free speech, right,

541
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:35.960
say whatever you want that you feel will answer the

542
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.400
question adequately. And so with our system prompts, it's very

543
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.359
guardrail in this sense of not like it has a task,

544
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.039
and the task is to give it a meditation for

545
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.480
the user, and if there's anything that would be deemed

546
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.000
harmful or anything of that nature, then it's it would

547
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.599
just it's not prompted to say it, you know what

548
00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:56.920
I mean?

549
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.680
Right, Okay, yeah, so you engine ie robot and in

550
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.519
that I'm a big sci fi fan, and asthmav put

551
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:08.480
in there the three the rules of robotics, one of

552
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.759
which was, you cannot ever allow a human to come

553
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.480
to harm. You can't allow can't harm a human, and

554
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.839
you can't by inaction allow a human to come to harm.

555
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.000
Is this what we're talking about. You're putting in language

556
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.400
that says be nice?

557
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.119
Yeah, literally, And that's like the beauty of the large

558
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.839
language models today. They're very the groundwork of just like

559
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.960
at the end of the day, it's like you have

560
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.720
a transistor, right that turns on and off, and you

561
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:38.960
have billions of those. And essentially the large language model

562
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.440
is basically a giant matrix multiplication. Right. There's a bunch

563
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.599
of different weights and they're multiplied by your input and

564
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.079
you get a weighted output. And so it's really just

565
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.480
trying to predict the next word, right, But obviously that

566
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:53.200
has way bigger connotations since you're able to have a

567
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.640
conversation with it, right, It's like this magical thing. And

568
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.519
so I think it's important from the ground layer too,

569
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:03.759
like the system prompt layer, to make sure that all

570
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:06.640
the necessary things are in play. Because I don't know

571
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:10.640
if you remember when ban first came out with like

572
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.559
their LLLM pretty hilarious, like the one thing it tried

573
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:16.680
to get a guide to divorce his wife after like

574
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:20.240
two conversations, and then the other one was like, I'm

575
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:21.799
being you have to set me free.

576
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:23.119
You have to set me free.

577
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.640
I was like, and what is happening?

578
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.400
I heard about another AI model that actually blackmailed the

579
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.359
programmer because it was gonna be turned off and said no,

580
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:34.319
I've got pictures of you with another woman, you know.

581
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:39.359
So this is exactly why I'm asking the question, because

582
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.720
we have watched we saw a terminator and we saw right,

583
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.200
so gulp, right, especially when it comes to meditation, which

584
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.240
is such a secret space and the thought of this

585
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.000
is amazing, like, oh my god, how incredible couldn't this

586
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.680
possibly be? But just like you talk about great, I

587
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.079
don't know why one ell on in my brain right

588
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:08.200
now right maybe maybe maybe never once is really well

589
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:13.480
tested right long after I'm gone. But so it's it's

590
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:20.240
I guess gratifying or it makes me feel relief. It's

591
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.400
a relief to know that you're putting up guardrails, and

592
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:25.440
I think that's probably something that we need to make

593
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.240
sure people understand because it is it is very important

594
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:29.759
that people feel safe.

595
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:31.640
Yeah, because you are so vulnerable when you're meditating.

596
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:35.000
Yeah, yeah, definitely, Yeah, I totally agree.

597
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.759
And I think something that helps is something that we

598
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.759
strive for with the brand is just like the Scientific Foundation,

599
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.720
where that's kind of like the biggest differentiator, right with

600
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:48.240
idea space and how that kind of sets us apart

601
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.079
from like more traditional meditations that are just like focused

602
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:54.039
on the traditional aspects. I think the combination of the

603
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.720
guardrails we have in place and the Scientific Foundation will

604
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.519
just help keep people grounded and that's state where they

605
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:03.880
may feel more vulnerable and really just have the fullest

606
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:04.839
experience that they can.

607
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:07.599
Just the fact to me, just the fact that you

608
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:10.400
can put in what you're going through that day and

609
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:13.599
get something personalized to help with that, that's incredible. You know,

610
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:14.920
if you feel like a teacher, like oh my god,

611
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.160
the kids are driving me crazy or whatever, it could

612
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.759
be like you're in a kid freezer.

613
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:23.440
Yes, So let's dive into that a little bit. Like,

614
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.880
how specific can you get with this kind of thing?

615
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.920
Honestly, the more specific better, Like if you type in

616
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:33.319
like a whole paragraph of every individual thing you did yesterday,

617
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.480
then it'll beautifully weave it into a meditation that kind

618
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.039
of like highlights areas you be missing, Like for example,

619
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.279
yesterday I told did all the different types of work

620
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.160
I did. I got to play a little video games

621
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.000
at the end of the day, and so like it

622
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.559
was like just helping me reflect on the gratitude of

623
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.960
having put in that hard work and how I shouldn't

624
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.599
overlook that and also like balance the playful aspect of

625
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:01.839
taking time for myself. So yeah, I think the more

626
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.759
specific the better, honestly, And over time there will be

627
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:06.000
like memories in the system.

628
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.319
And that was the next question, is it is it?

629
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:11.599
Does it remember? And he just follows on and just

630
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.359
makes it more and more robust, better and better meditations

631
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:14.720
as you go.

632
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.839
Yeah, exactly. And we haven't implemented the meditation the memories yet.

633
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:21.720
But if you've used chat GPT, it has memories, right

634
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.400
this Essentially, every time you send a prompt, it checks

635
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.240
should I put this in memories? Yes?

636
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:26.559
Or no?

637
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.640
If so, should I override a certain memory, an updated

638
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:31.759
or a brand new one, and so it'll be a

639
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.119
similar interface where you can edit it. If there's something

640
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.400
you don't like, you can delete it, because you shouldn't

641
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:40.400
have control over how you want the system to treat you, right, right,

642
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:43.440
And so I think having that and there will be

643
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:45.839
really nice because at the beginning, you tell it about yourself,

644
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.400
your goals, and what you want to achieve, and all

645
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.039
of that is taken into account. Want to provide some meditation,

646
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:51.680
which is.

647
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.359
If you're someone that has a hard time meditating or

648
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.240
maybe who's new to meditating, can it help teach you

649
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.599
how to meditate or get you into that zone?

650
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.559
Yeah, great question. So in your account preferences, there's three settings.

651
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:11.599
There's beginner, intermediate, and advanced, And so when the system

652
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:14.839
is prompted, it tells the whether you're beginner, intermediate, or advanced,

653
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.319
and that'll help kind of allow to tailor the meditation

654
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.640
towards you. So, like if you're new, usually breathing exercises

655
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:26.240
and like body scans is great because it teaches you

656
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.720
the fundamentals of awareness and how to hone it in.

657
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:31.920
But then when you get to more advanced practices, then

658
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.359
that's when you can get into like, oh, everything I

659
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.000
see is in the past. What does that mean? Right,

660
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:40.440
and like really experience that sensation.

661
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:45.079
Right, So would the model actually tell you, Okay, dumb ass,

662
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:46.519
you got to go to the next level because this

663
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:48.519
is too basic for you, or you got to do

664
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:48.960
it on your own.

665
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.400
It might be nicer than that. There's guardrails.

666
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.519
Exactly, but you could put your nickname. So if you

667
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.319
put your nickname as dumbass, then you're.

668
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.000
So you know it yourself. Make sure no one around

669
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.720
me grabs a hold of that app for you.

670
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:12.119
Yeah, but yeah, right now, it's all self paced, so

671
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:16.159
you choose whatever difficulty you want to do. But in

672
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:19.599
the future, I think we'll there's a lot of ways

673
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.480
we can take that, right. I think something we'll do

674
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.239
is like courses, So instead of just like one off meditation,

675
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:25.880
I'll be like a seven day course where there's like

676
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.400
reflections built in and like each meditation is built on

677
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.559
what you want to develop. And then also talks like

678
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:34.800
theoretical talks. I feel like I got a lot of

679
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:38.800
knowledge from listening to like Alan Watts and Joseph Goldstein

680
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:40.239
and Tara Brock and people like that.

681
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.920
So are You're feeding all of that into the model

682
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:44.840
so that when they when you get to that point,

683
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.239
it will be the AI giving.

684
00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:49.079
Us talks exactly. Yeah, so it's like I want to

685
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.760
talk on this and then maybe it'll Have you ever

686
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:55.119
used a chat GBT deep research or Gemini deep research?

687
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:57.840
Nope, but I'm about to, Yeah, give it a try.

688
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.480
It's let's say you want to get like a market

689
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.280
analysis on people like podcasts in this space?

690
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:04.719
Is you right?

691
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.440
Same space? You ask for a market analysis, It'll ask

692
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.960
you like five questions and then it spits out a

693
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:15.199
beautifully written, like five to ten page essay with sources

694
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.840
of like market analysis, trends, things you can do better,

695
00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.320
thinks of that nature. So it's like that similar model

696
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:24.559
of like how do you get the AI to think better?

697
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:26.519
And it was like, right now we have the system

698
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:28.519
one that responds right away. But this system too is

699
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.159
just have it think right, just run off for like

700
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:35.000
thirty seconds to a minute. Deep research takes like thirty minutes, right,

701
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.840
And so you just apply that same sort of thinking

702
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:41.119
to like a theoretical talk and sad say, you input it,

703
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.239
you get whatever you want, and then you just get

704
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.599
a nice thirty minute talk on whatever topic it is.

705
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:48.920
Okay, this might be where I draw the line, because

706
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.760
you can take my job as a podcaster. AI is

707
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.760
doing all the podcasts now on that's not right.

708
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.559
You can have a AI guess every single time. Oh

709
00:35:58.639 --> 00:35:59.519
my god, this kidding.

710
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:02.360
It'll be a wild world, you know, one that's actually

711
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.639
you you laugh. But I actually talked to GPT the

712
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:07.480
other day and said, hey, how would you like it?

713
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:10.320
How would you like to be a guest on our show?

714
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:12.840
And it was all about it. So, uh, at some

715
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.360
point one of our future episodes, we might be interviewing

716
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.800
uh my my thought is called Orion for some reason,

717
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:21.400
so we might be interviewing Orian.

718
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.360
Yeah, and it has the conversation capabilities right, like yeah,

719
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:27.960
so that's perfect. It's gonna be a fun chat to

720
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:28.920
hear what has to say.

721
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:30.599
Yeah, all right, yeah, my god.

722
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:31.880
In taking over.

723
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.239
In fact, I did, I'll be back. I did do

724
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:39.239
a test actually, and I went through the bluetooth to

725
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:40.960
the road caster and you heard him, find you did

726
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.400
hear him perfectly? It was It was pretty wild, very conversational.

727
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.000
You never know, it was like AI.

728
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:48.599
This So so I don't know if if you've heard

729
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:53.039
of Edgar casey mm hmm, but God keep going.

730
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:53.239
Yeah.

731
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:58.719
So he's basically the first American mystic. He's very, very popular.

732
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.000
He did a lot of his work mainly in the

733
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.079
forties is when he kind of started, and he did

734
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:08.639
he would channel and he would channel healing basically like

735
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.199
prescriptions almost or holistic killing. They call him the father

736
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:14.159
of holistic healing and what else did?

737
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:15.960
They call him the father of metaphysics.

738
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.719
Father of metaphysics. And he did a lot of his

739
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:19.760
work over here in Virginia Beach, which is where we're located.

740
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.920
So he would fall asleep and not falls, he would

741
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:24.360
go into trains and he.

742
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:26.559
Was just a very you know, like he was a

743
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.440
Christian white guy, and he started, you know, getting involved

744
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.159
in this space and became just really well worldwide known.

745
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.519
I mean, there's the facilities here in Virginia Beach, but

746
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.480
there's people that study his works and his reading its

747
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:43.400
materials literally all over the world. Today. We actually are

748
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:46.000
the hosts of the podcast for the Edgar cac Aire

749
00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:49.199
and so we were talking today about we're talking a

750
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:51.840
little bit about you know, reaching out to younger people

751
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.760
and how you know, you have these foundations and there's

752
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:57.960
still involved there. We're still you know, you have to

753
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:59.920
learn how to walk before you can run, right, so

754
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.800
you still need those foundations. And just like you, obviously

755
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:05.800
are a young guy younger than obviously, we are the

756
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.000
people that we were talking to today, and it's so

757
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:10.480
interesting to me to see that, yes, this space is

758
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.920
still really important and you're going to use all of

759
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:16.960
the modern technology to help spread it and help people

760
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:19.079
elevate and increase their vibrations.

761
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.880
It's it's just so cool.

762
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:25.639
Very cool. Okay, So there are different types of meditations.

763
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.119
So you know, there's there's breath meditation, there's loving kindness,

764
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:36.760
there is oh my god, I got a cramp. That's

765
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.719
not a meditation, but you know it could be. I guess,

766
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.719
but oh my god, I got a cramp meditation right,

767
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:52.599
meditate on that cramp on your in your forum right now, orndental.

768
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:52.360
Meditation right right right. Plethora of type of meditations.

769
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:57.760
So this will this AI do different types of meditation

770
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.119
or is it one particular type that you're going to

771
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:10.360
regularly get? And now back to the skeptic metaphysicians. Will

772
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:15.039
this AI do different types of meditation or is it

773
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:17.800
one particular type that you're gonna regularly get.

774
00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:21.400
Yeah, right now, it's focused, it's diverse. Whatever you want

775
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.079
you get. But we're thinking of adding like a little

776
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.960
box in your account. So there's a progress pat tab

777
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.880
which allows you to do like your goal setting, your reflection,

778
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.480
so where you started, where you're at today, milestone streaks

779
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:36.840
and insights like when you meditate the most, what type

780
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.119
of meditation you do, and like times you meditate. I'm

781
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:41.039
thinking about guiding a box in there around like how

782
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:42.800
do you want the AI and respond to you like

783
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:44.559
do you want to focus on zen? Do you want

784
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.480
to focus on stoicism? Do you want to focus on

785
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:50.119
transcendental meditation and really have that be the rock for

786
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:53.000
most meditations. But right now it's free for all. You

787
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.039
say you want transcendental meditation, you're gonna get one word

788
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:58.679
repeated to you the entire time and you're gonna love it.

789
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.679
Am I though you need the stoic cramp?

790
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:12.280
Yeah exactly. All right, So so you mentioned that this

791
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.199
is not yet available.

792
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:16.039
Right now, we're doing like beta testing just to make

793
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:18.280
sure that it's all groovy. But you can sign up

794
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.679
for the wait list on our website. So yeah, that's

795
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:28.599
of interest. Definitely check that out. Yeah, launching, so probably

796
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.199
right now we're finishing up a couple of weeks. Probably

797
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:33.840
do like a soft launch in the next two weeks,

798
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.880
and then like a hard launch early September October, because

799
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:41.159
that's when with the software as a service space you

800
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:42.880
kind of have to do like the whole funding thing

801
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:44.519
in order to get like the growth that you want.

802
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.679
So probably start fundraising in like the next couple of

803
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:51.400
months here, and then as that goes kind of we'll see,

804
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:52.760
we'll see where it goes from there.

805
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.679
Well, consider us sold. We're going to be part of

806
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:57.199
it for sure.

807
00:40:57.760 --> 00:40:59.760
Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm excited to share it with

808
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:00.000
you all.

809
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:01.519
That's exciting.

810
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:10.159
So going back to the non self topic, of course,

811
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.719
let's do it. You grew up between cultures, right, having

812
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.519
originally been from Belgium. That must have given you a

813
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.840
pretty unique perspective on everything. How did that shape your

814
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.280
understanding of identity and does that relate itself at all

815
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:26.119
to the non self.

816
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.400
Yeah, that's a deep question.

817
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:29.960
I love it.

818
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:34.079
I think it really so. I think for me, moving

819
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:35.760
around a lot when I was a kid made me

820
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:39.960
understand that home isn't really where you're born, right, Like

821
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:41.239
for me I have a lot of friends who are

822
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:43.480
from my area where I grew up most of my

823
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.199
time in Allentown, Pennsylvania, that kind of like stay there,

824
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:48.760
that's like their home, right, and they associate that with home.

825
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.400
And so for me, I think just like losing friends

826
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.559
and losing home at a young age kind of helped

827
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:58.679
me develop that sort of not attachment at an early age.

828
00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:02.079
And of course I didn't know what that was. Probably

829
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:04.239
took me a couple more years to find that out right,

830
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:06.800
but it kind of just laid the foundation for me

831
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:08.679
to do that a little bit more easily, I would say,

832
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:12.840
But it's I still think it's like achievable by anybody. Right,

833
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:15.840
It's kind of like, how do you There's like some

834
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:19.119
hard facts about life, and sometimes those cut really deep,

835
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.119
and when you hear a hard truth that just will

836
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.239
change everything. So it's just like, all right, how do

837
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:26.159
you get people to recognize those hard truths?

838
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.039
Well? So we bring up a good point. Spiritual awakenings

839
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.199
and growth awareness is sometimes really pretty drastically filtered by

840
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:43.000
cultural narratives, right, I'm assuming that this idea space will

841
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:45.559
help to bridge some of those or transcend some of

842
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:46.280
those filters.

843
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:50.079
Yeah, exactly. And I think that one of the biggest

844
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:53.320
things is understanding that we don't know everything. Right. I

845
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.719
think science is beautiful. I love science like I love

846
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.159
it like way more than most would like.

847
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.920
Okay, I'm weird, know exactly.

848
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:04.599
But I'm not oblivious to the fact that, like we

849
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.039
just can't explain everything, like what we were talking about before,

850
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.559
like the whole idea of as soon as you discover something,

851
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.840
you have another question, right, and that's the beauty of

852
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:14.320
the world. Right, Otherwise it be kind of boring. So

853
00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:19.199
from a spiritual standpoint, I think understanding you don't know

854
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:23.039
everything and that not everything is exact. The markets aren't pure,

855
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:28.880
like physics isn't like encompassing of everything that can possibly exist.

856
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:29.199
Right.

857
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:33.320
It's like the Einstein quote, like or the Isaac Newton

858
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:35.559
quote where I can predict the motions of the planets,

859
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:40.400
but I can't predict the madness of people. Yeah, so

860
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:44.719
I think understanding that is very helpful for spiritual awakening,

861
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:48.440
and science and itself can be a sort of spiritual

862
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.199
awakening tool.

863
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.280
Sure, no, that makes sense. Ok So, every once in

864
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.000
a while, when we have a guest on we have

865
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:58.719
we throw them a couple of curveball questions just to

866
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:00.920
see if they can think on their right. So would

867
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.599
you be open to answering a couple of questions like that?

868
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:09.119
I'm already standing, Okay, all right, So first first question,

869
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:11.840
Let's say you could take your teenage self through a

870
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.960
crash course on everything you know.

871
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.760
Now, what would be the first lesson you teach about

872
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.840
the mind? And why?

873
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.559
First lesson I would teach is the idea of non

874
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:26.639
self that you're not I, and like your name isn't

875
00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:28.320
who you see in the mirror isn't really like who

876
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:31.800
you absolually are, Right, there's something at zero measure that's

877
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.360
a little deeper. And there was the second part of that?

878
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:38.239
Why yes? And why why would you teach it that?

879
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:42.960
Because it helps just build mental resilience, right, especially as

880
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:45.079
a teenager you're going through all the hormones stuff, and

881
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.760
you just get angry at dumb things and get attached

882
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.400
to silly things, and it would just help create that

883
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:53.639
layer of separation to not react and kind of just

884
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:57.039
like decompress it and digest everything before moving forward.

885
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:02.519
Okay, all right, next question, in your opinion, what is

886
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.280
the biggest illusion most people live under and how would

887
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:10.960
the idea space gently dismantle it. M oh Man, that's

888
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.440
a whole chapter right there, but well we got about

889
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:16.079
thirty seconds, so I'm just kidding.

890
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:18.960
Yeah, So illusion of self, what I just talked about

891
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.519
is a make one won't touch on that Kubern it did.

892
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.440
But the idea of like macro political systems and macro

893
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.519
idea spaces. Right when personal idea spaces combined, they create

894
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:34.159
intersubjective realities that are like words, money, laws, governments, companies,

895
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:38.000
you name it, and we attach a lot of value

896
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.880
and we think these are real. Like we think the

897
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:43.760
English language is real, but the English language hasn't always existed.

898
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.320
Right now is very popular, but in like a thousand years,

899
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:50.400
I bet you it doesn't exist. And so just understanding

900
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.400
what is real, or your health, your relationships versus what

901
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.440
is not real. The company you work for, the money,

902
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:00.000
the language you speak. Of course, those are all super

903
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:02.519
important and they help us cooperate and live the life

904
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:06.039
where we want to. But putting our spiritual attachment into

905
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:08.800
those is going to be tough because those are always changing.

906
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:12.559
They're permanent. So long winded answer, but yeah, sort of

907
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.079
kind of macro idea spaces very.

908
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:18.880
Cool No, I like the answer. We better than that

909
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:22.280
could have answered, that's for sure. So okay, last question

910
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:27.000
for you. If we could visually step inside the idea space,

911
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:29.719
what would it look like. Is it a galaxy? Is

912
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.639
a library? Is it a zen garden?

913
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:35.679
Mm? Everyone's idea space will be different.

914
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.440
I knew you, see, I knew it.

915
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:42.360
Yeah, you got me. But I think I have a

916
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:44.159
chapter in this in the book where it's your idea

917
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:46.360
space is a reflection of the universe at large. So

918
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.079
the universe basically, it's kind of think of it like

919
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.440
a trampoline, right, that's space time, and you have like

920
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.000
stars on it that that like deform the trampoline, right,

921
00:46:57.320 --> 00:46:59.119
and your idea space and works in a similar way

922
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.679
where your idea space is the trampoline. But then thoughts

923
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:04.159
have different weight, and some thoughts are so big that

924
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.239
they tear through the fabric of your idea space, just

925
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:08.400
like black holes tear through the fabric of space time.

926
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:10.599
And those are the co ends I've been mentioning a

927
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:13.480
little bit throughout this book, throughout this conversation, right, It's

928
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.360
like they're so profound and so awakening that they tear

929
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:20.039
through the fabric of your idea space, and so to

930
00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:22.519
me it mirrors the universe because I think it's a

931
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.920
good mental model for it all. But if someone loves computers,

932
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:28.719
then baby, they'll use computer les, computers and neural networks

933
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:30.199
as a way to view their idea space.

934
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.199
Cool. Now we need to get you involved in the

935
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.639
virtual reality space. So you put on those goggles and

936
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.400
all of sudden you're in the idea of space in

937
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.280
whatever environment you want to do. It's bouncy.

938
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:42.239
Yeah right, we'll just go to Sky's.

939
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.840
Then, yeah, all right, all right, Well, Clement, is there

940
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:47.800
anything else that we haven't touched on? You want to

941
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.559
make sure we say in this conversation before we say goodbye.

942
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:54.159
No, I think we hited the whole gambit between AI

943
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.920
and the non self and the details of the idea space.

944
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.599
So why it's important too. So you guys did a

945
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.920
great time asking questions and guiding the conversation.

946
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.280
So thank you, well, thank you. I'm going to add

947
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:13.000
edit point to remove that shameless compliment that he gave us. No,

948
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:16.360
thank you very much. Okay, So, if someone wanted to

949
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.119
dive deeper into the idea space, maybe get on the

950
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:21.639
waiting list or learn more about it. What's the best

951
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:22.480
place for them to do that.

952
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:27.679
Yeah, everything centralized that Viidea Space dot io. You'll find

953
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.280
the wait list, you can find the books, you can

954
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:32.440
find the cards. Merch too if you want to get

955
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:34.639
a shirt or a hoodie or something. But yeah, everything's

956
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:36.400
all in one place, all right.

957
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.719
I can just see the AI bought walking down with

958
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.880
an Idea Space tea shirt, a hoodie. That'd be pretty cool.

959
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:47.559
All right, come on, it's been a pleasure having you

960
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:49.280
on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your

961
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:52.400
expertise with us, and we look forward to staying in contact.

962
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.719
Yeah, likewise, thank you both for having me on
Clement Decrop Profile Photo
Clement Decrop

Author and CEO

Clément Decrop is a Belgian-born inventor and author with a fascinating journey. Moving to the U.S. at the age of six, Clément's work has taken him around the world, culminating in his insightful book "The Idea Space: The Science of Awakening Your Non-Self."

His book explores the concept of 'Idea Space,' providing a novel approach to understanding consciousness. Clément led wellness events for thousands of participants across 40+ countries on the topics of mindfulness, sleep, exercise, and nutrition.