What Happens When You Stop Hiding Your Spiritual Beliefs? - Classic

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Karen. Yes. We both grew up in Catholic traditions, right? Yes, we did. No. Were you subjected

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to a lot of dogma in your upbringing at school at school? Not at home, but at school.

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Not at the church. We didn't go to church a whole lot. Oh, so it was just a school religious

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aspect. It was a, yes, a school. I mean, we went to church at school and then we went

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on holidays. So you were a holiday camp? I was at that typical camp. Well, I also, we

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actually went to church on Sundays and I had a lot of programming when I was involved

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in the church growing up. You did. It's so much so that I think I might still be feeling

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some of the effects today of that programming. I can't help but feel that had I not had

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that dogmatic programming while I was a kid. I might be a lot more advanced in the spiritual

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path than I'm on level. Well, you have like a crazy intent. I hadn't

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ever heard of such thing. You told me. Yeah. We'll have to talk right down the show one day.

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But then sadly, this fear seems to be the prevailing feeling in so many people that have grown

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up with the religious upbringing. So question is how do you overcome the struggle that

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comes with wanting to come out of the spiritual closet because of religious trauma or judgment?

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Nobody wants to be looked at weird or burned at the state. Right?

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Drift. Well, this is just a sliver of what we're about to cover on this episode of the

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skeptic manifestations.

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My name is Will and I'm Karen and unlike Boulder and Scully.

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Both want to believe so we've embarked on a journey of discovery.

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Welcome to skeptic musicians classic.

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You are listening to classic skeptic many

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physicians. Welcome to our version of our walk down memory lane as we present classics from

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the skeptic manifestation library warts and all.

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Today's story comes from a podcast that I've been listening to for a little while now.

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The show is called "Ungraduated Living" and the host of that show takes us through a journey

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of rediscovery trying to get ourselves unprogrammed from the way that we've been programmed by society

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over the last hundreds of years. His topics are so mind-blowing that every time I see

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one of his shows come out, I do what I can to listen to it right away because it does

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force you to think way outside of your box and he doesn't do it by pure speculation.

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He does a lot of research and everything he says and he talks about makes so much sense.

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Well, on one of his recent episodes he shared a story with us, the listeners and I really

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hope that he doesn't mind if I share it with you because it was such an amazing story

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that I think it needs to get out there more and more.

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Anyway, this is the real life story of Paul Gretchen.

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Paul had just started dating a woman named Esther, an ESTHER Esther.

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And he was thinking about asking her to be his girlfriend.

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He was standing in a deli pay for a sandwich when he noticed a dollar bill with a name Esther

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on it.

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How weird he thought to himself that the name Esther would appear at the exact moments he

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was thinking of their relationship.

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Well, for some reason he decided not to spend it and instead took the bill home with him,

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something he'd never normally do.

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He decided that this dollar bill would be a funny gift for Esther so he put it in a frame

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and on a day he gave it to her he planned on that day to ask her to make the relationship

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official.

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But when Esther unwrapped the frame with a dollar bill inside she didn't laugh.

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She was absolutely speechless as she stared at the dollar bill.

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She seemed shocked and confused after some silence.

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Paul told her it wasn't quite the reaction he'd been hoping for so he asked her if something

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was wrong.

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Well, Esther replied that everything was fine and happily agreed to date Paul exclusively.

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Well two years went by without any mention of that dollar bill they grew closer and closer

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and Paul eventually proposed to Esther.

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They got married and it wasn't until they moved into their new home together that Paul

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saw the dollar bill once again.

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He was surprised that Esther had kept the dollar bill after all this time.

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It was only then that Esther finally revealed why she reacted the way she did to the dollar

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bill all those years ago.

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See, it turns out that when she was 19 years old she was in an unhappy relationship.

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It was ending and in the middle of that break up she remembers thinking that she wasn't

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sure if true love was even real.

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So, she decided to leave her fate in the hands of the universe.

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She took ten different dollar bills and on each of them she wrote her name.

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She said to herself very adamantly, very intently.

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If I'm meant to find my true love then one of these bills will end up in the hands of

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the man that I will marry.

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And so when Paul gave her the dollar bill with her name on it in that moment you see she

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knew that she was going to marry him.

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But she didn't want to reveal that information so early on in the relationship for fear that

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it would look perhaps a little bit too clingy, maybe too over reactionary.

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So it's astonishing and of course, an unlikely story.

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As of today Paul and Esther have been married for more than 19 years and they have three children.

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It's been said that when you're on the right path the universe winks and nods from time

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to time just to let you know.

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And once you start noticing these little cosmic clues, once you understand that you're on

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a path at all you'll begin to see the clues and signs everywhere.

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A big big thank you to ungraduated living the podcast that comes out daily little short

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episodes that are unbelievably mind blowing.

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He really focuses on one particular topic in every week and he goes into this topic in

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a little bite size chunks every weekday.

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If you've not listened to ungraduated living I urge you to go look them up.

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He is on all the podcasting platforms we are as well.

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And if you do listen to him subscribe to his show say hi to him for us.

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Let him know that we are big fans and we're big fans of you the listener as well.

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Hello everyone, another episode of the skeptic manifestations of podcasts and delts into

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the mysteries of life, spirituality and personal growth on your host will and with me today

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as always is my divine co-host and life partner Karen.

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Hello today we have a truly fascinating guest joining us with a background in running

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a metaphysical shop in wellness center in Minnesota.

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She made a bold move to the heart of the Bible belt Oklahoma.

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Now she's here today to share her unique insight on the stark differences she's observed

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in the spiritual communities and how they navigate the diverse spiritual beliefs they encounter.

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Welcome to the show Jen Beirma how you doing?

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I'm fantastic I'm so excited to be here you have no idea while I'm nervous I did I will

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say that I'm a little bit nervous.

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I don't think we should be nervous at all but I adore you guys so much you have no idea.

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Like when I started doing podcasts on my own with a friend of mine I was looking for

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people who are doing the same thing and I found you guys and I'm just so excited because

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what you are doing is the energy that I hope that a lot of people get to experience when

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they're listening to different podcasts so I'm just really excited to be with you guys.

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That means so much to us thank you Jen that's incredible.

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Let's dive right in.

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Moving from Minnesota a place where metaphysics and spirituality may have been more openly

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embraced to Oklahoma where religious beliefs hold a really strong presence.

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It must have been quite a journey.

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Yes it was.

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I walked through a lot when I was growing up in the spiritual realm in Minnesota I got

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through a lot of my fear there so I went through all the religious persecution and all

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of those other things while I was there and I got real comfortable after years being open

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in that community and then I ended up moving down here and I don't know how many times

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I have heard "Well I walk with the Lord" and I'm like "I do too" just in a different way.

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So it's been really interesting to watch the way that people interact and the things that

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they say and I've had a really good opportunity since I've been down here.

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I'm a very chatty Kathy I will talk to anybody and I'll ask them questions about their spirituality

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about their religion and so I've had the opportunity to have a lot of conversations with people

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who are in very religious settings or they have a very strong religious background and

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I've actually had a lot of people open up to me and say you know what I've never really

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talked to anybody who has your spiritual beliefs.

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I've just been told that you're the devil and that I'm not supposed to talk to you.

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I've had people say that to me like my heart breaks but at the same time I'm like you know

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that's their belief and I'm grateful that they can say that to me and not feel the judgment

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or feel the fear about saying like where they're at.

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I'd rather have the conversation so we can both come to a place like in the middle.

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It makes sense at least they're open to the conversation where sometimes a lot of those

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really ultra religious people won't even have the conversation they just think you're

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the devil gonna bring you to the sake you can go to hell or anything with you and then

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there's no way to talk to them.

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Not that we're proselytizing but then there's the other side where they actually you're

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wrong we're gonna I'm gonna have to change you and bring it to God.

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You were a little bit like that on the opposite side will.

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I don't know what you're talking about.

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We're started out.

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I'm hearing anything down, down, down.

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It was interesting though we had a similar kind of culture clash when we moved here we're

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in Virginia now and we moved from Florida and I remember it was probably the first couple

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of months you know we didn't know anybody and everyone we met like okay maybe not everyone

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but maybe 98% of the people we met within the first three sentences of a conversation were

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like oh what church do you go to?

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What church do you go to?

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It was so different than anything we'd had experienced before so I kind of get that.

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You should've seen the reaction when I said I go to the church of will.

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I got some crazy serious but you know but it's true I have my own religion I have my own

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thought process and and there's nothing wrong with that in my expression.

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I had a friend in high school who actually cried which she said to me that she loved me

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but she knew I was going to hell because I didn't believe in the stuff she believed in

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which was really hard to take because she's a really good friend and just because I don't

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believe what you believe I'm going to hell because yeah but I love you and I just pray for

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you every day.

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Well thank you for the prayers but holy smokes.

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And the other thing is we don't really believe in hell so it's okay.

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There is that yeah.

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But enough about us.

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Growing up actually my best friend from childhood her family was very religious.

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I believe they were Catholic.

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I'm pretty sure they were Catholic and they used to have her pray for me every night.

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And I didn't know this until I was older and when we finally talked about it she said

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"Do you know what I prayed?

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I prayed that we'd end up in the same place when we died."

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Because I didn't pray what they were asking because she's like "I don't understand."

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Wow well she better hope you it's not hell you're ending up in.

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Well at least it'll be fun right?

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You have your friend there.

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I hear the wine dead.

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That's awesome.

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How did you overcome that?

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Well so what I started doing when I got down here is I started reaching out to every

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person that even sounded like they might be part of the metaphysical community, part

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of the spiritual community and I just started reaching out and saying "Hey I'm moving here.

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I'm trying to find community."

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And I was shocked how many of those people were like you're just calling random people

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and saying these things out loud.

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And I was like yes.

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And they're like do you know what happens?

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If you post a social media about rakey or you get banned like everybody gangs up on you.

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You do not talk about this stuff or community does not talk about this stuff.

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You don't just go up to people and start talking about this.

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And I was like well I'm not from here so I'm going to do me like I'm going to do this

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and make it.

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Wow.

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Yeah like it's that intense.

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And so I just continued doing that just reaching out to people and I ended up finding

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a spiritual center that has all kinds of different alternative practitioners.

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They do sound healing and talk about lumirion crystals and extra trust reels and chant

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and do all the will things that I do.

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And so I started getting involved in that community and then spirit came in and said "Gen,

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you are always placed in these places where you can make a bigger impact and you can bridge

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that gap between different spiritual realms and you can allow, you can help people to

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see that you're no different.

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You just believe differently."

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And so it's always on my heart to just be a good person, just get involved in the community

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be a good person.

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And so after that message kept coming in because sometimes I'm a little bit dense and I'm

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like no, no, no, I'm going to stick to the people that I know are going to accept me

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here.

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After I finally started to accept that I went and got involved in the chamber and I

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went and started doing all these things.

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And that's where I really started having the conversations where people were like I

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don't understand you're such a good person.

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And I'm like, "Yes, I am."

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Exactly.

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That is the exact point that I want to make.

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It's like just because we believe differently doesn't make one of us a bad person and one

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of us a good person or one of us going to hell and one of us going to heaven.

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Like, so it's allowing yourself to be open to those experiences and moving forward.

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And I wonder sometimes how really when it comes down to the actual core of the beliefs,

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how really different are they?

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It's kind of like, and I'm kicking myself because I'm trying to think of the name, but the

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original, okay, Lion King, that was based off of what play.

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The Shakespeare was like, "Killing Lear, and something like that."

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So same story, totally different.

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You could not get a kid to sit there, King Lear.

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I mean, it's the same kind of different characters, different this and that, but ultimately

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the core is pretty much the same, which I think you know, love, community, helping each

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other, all of those, that's the core of it.

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And I think that's the same, even though it looks completely different.

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Yeah.

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Well, and sometimes it doesn't even look completely different.

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It's just that people have been taught that it does.

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So like when you break things down and you actually look at it, most of the time it is the

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same principles.

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Like it really is the same principles.

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It's just slightly shifted in focus or there's another belief in there like these people

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aren't allowed to do this and these people aren't allowed to do that or something.

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Yeah, we just released not long ago, it nepsod about Eger Casey, and he was a devout Christian

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who was the Godfather of metaphysics, right?

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The sleeping prophet, the guy was a devout, religious man.

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And yet he mixed these two worlds perfectly.

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So it can be done, as a matter of whether someone is willing to actually take the time to

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do it or step into it.

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Exactly.

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And it's beautiful when you can create those communities where there's people who have different

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beliefs or can teach each other or help you experience something different.

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Right.

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And that's part of my goal here is to give people space so that they can experience different

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belief systems.

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They can experience different things.

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They can explore who they are without feeling like they're going to be persecuted for it

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or without feeling like it's a horrible thing for them to look elsewhere, to fill their

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heart.

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How long ago did you move?

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So I moved down here last May.

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Okay.

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So like a year, like very recent.

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Have you found a lot of people that are open to these conversations or have you more found

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the banning side of things?

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I have not been banned anywhere yet.

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You've been?

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That's a plus.

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That's a plus.

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That's because they like that I help out at events and do other things, but I'm in work

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here.

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Yeah.

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She's the only one who will do the dishes.

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Just leave your alone.

255
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:35,960
Yeah.

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So I've found different pockets of communities.

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I've found some spiritual communities that I've gotten involved in so that it's not like

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a constant conversation.

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But I've also found a lot of people that are like, okay, like now that we've gotten the

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weird parts out of the way, we've had this conversation about how I think you're going

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to hell and like we've talked about it.

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We've walked through it.

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It's fine.

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Like it was very interesting.

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The first time I came down here and went to a chamber meeting in the morning, like the

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first thing that they do is they do a prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.

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And I was not expecting that at a chamber meeting.

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And so I was like, oh, and I'm fine with that.

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But I was like, what?

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You totally should have gotten up and called the corners.

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But those who don't know calling the corners as a wick in tradition, the pagan tradition,

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how you start the rituals you bring in the four elements and all like that.

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But anyway, that would have been really, really interesting how they would have reacted

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to that.

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Wow.

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So it's been interesting because as I've been at more of these meetings, I talk about like

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mindset and I talk about positivity and I talk about energy.

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And I don't go chew in the actual meetings.

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But I've had people approach me and say, tell me more.

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Tell me more about this.

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So they'll ask me questions and then I hand them a card and it says intuitive on the back

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of it in one spot and every time I'll go, oh, and then they like stick the card in their

283
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,000
pocket and they're like, yeah, we'll talk later.

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That's not the way.

285
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Nobody's watching.

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Okay.

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That's one of those things where they have a reaction to some of the words, but they're

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very curious about the energy behind it and the loving messages that are coming through.

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And so that's one of the things I always talk about people when you're coming out of the

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spiritual closet, talk to people where they're at.

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Like nobody's going to argue with you when you start talking about the love that you feel

292
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for people.

293
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Nobody's going to come at you when you say loving and kind things.

294
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So bring in those things first.

295
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Like bring them into that energy and interact with them in that space first.

296
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And then when the other questions come up, they already know like who you are at a heart

297
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level rather than coming at you immediately with, oh, my gosh, you're a psychic.

298
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Oh, my gosh, you're this.

299
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Oh, my gosh, you're that.

300
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It's more about who you are and who your character is rather than what your beliefs are at

301
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that point.

302
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Right.

303
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So what I'm going to say is that you have to be willing to be crammed into a closet with

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someone to have these conversations so that doesn't get out in the open too soon.

305
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Maybe it's just a little corner.

306
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:20,920
Just like behind the bookshelf.

307
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,560
I wouldn't say the closet because they're kind of coming out of the closet.

308
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,560
But you got to join them in the closet so that they feel comfortable right in the closet.

309
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,160
Yeah, make sure you have the right coat size for them.

310
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,760
Just, so now you're in the mask.

311
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:34,760
Now, Clark.

312
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,360
Oh, boy, we are going out some weird roads here.

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00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:42,160
I don't know if you were the universe closest to go, but I'm having a ton of fun

314
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,160
and talking to you.

315
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,320
And we haven't even touched on the fact that you are a medium and a lot of other stuff.

316
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,320
We need to take a break.

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00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,360
But when we come back, this conversation is just starting to heat up now.

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00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,120
So stay with us because when we come back, we're going to talk to Jen about her gifts and

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00:19:55,120 --> 00:20:00,200
how she's using those in this spiritual, closeted region of the country.

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Stand by.

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00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:15,840
[Music]

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Another week, we find another listener corner review to share with you.

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00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:26,520
This time is from Emmy and G left us a lifestyle review with the title So Good.

324
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,480
They want to say it's so refreshing to hear about all of the different modalities out there

325
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,480
love to listen to Will and Karen on my way to work the night shift.

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00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,200
I get my night started with their great attitudes and wonderful personalities.

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00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,840
Emmy and G thank you so much.

328
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,000
We really appreciate the time that you took to leave us a review.

329
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,120
And if you like to hear your review read on the air, please feel free to go to skepticmedivision.com

330
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,960
or Apple podcasts or pod chaser.

331
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,040
You can leave a review in any one of those sites and you never know.

332
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,960
You might just hear your word read in a future episode.

333
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,960
[Music]

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00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,960
We are back.

335
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We're talking to Jen Birma, who moved from Minnesota, who is with somewhat open to metaphysics

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00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:18,040
and spirituality to Oklahoma, which is in the middle of the Bible belt and suddenly found

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herself having to jump herself into a closet to talk to people about spiritual subjects

338
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:25,900
so that they weren't burned heard of the state.

339
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,260
Jen, I've been having such a fun time chatting with you.

340
00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:32,460
We haven't touched on the fact that you are actually a medium.

341
00:21:32,460 --> 00:21:37,180
You actually have you channeled all kinds of entities and ets and things like that.

342
00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:41,580
Has that come out in Oklahoma that you do these things?

343
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:43,460
Well, it's on my website.

344
00:21:43,460 --> 00:21:45,620
It's on my business cards.

345
00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:48,860
I have had conversations with clients who have come in for massage.

346
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I'm in massage therapist as well.

347
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I lead with that here.

348
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:52,700
Oh, yes.

349
00:21:52,700 --> 00:22:00,980
But people will ask me questions about it and then they kind of shy away from it here.

350
00:22:00,980 --> 00:22:07,140
I for a really long time in Minnesota, I didn't talk about that part of what I did.

351
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:10,540
I would talk about the intuitive piece when I was doing massage, when I was working, I

352
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:11,860
would talk about that.

353
00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:17,140
But I wouldn't approach the fact that I talk to Jesus on a regular basis that I have different

354
00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:19,540
guides who come in and speak through me.

355
00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:23,100
And sometimes they would give messages to clients and clients had no idea that somebody

356
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:26,900
else was coming through.

357
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:33,100
It's one of those things where if it's meant to come up, I'll let it come up.

358
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If Jesus wants to give a message to somebody, he's welcome to do that.

359
00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:46,180
It's been really interesting when I've had people who were really skeptical come in and

360
00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:49,700
really fearful of the things that I do.

361
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:55,100
I've had several times where Jesus is stepped in and said, "Can you please tell this person

362
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:56,100
this?"

363
00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:00,740
And I deliver that message and everything changes.

364
00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:01,900
And a good way or a bad way.

365
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:02,900
In a good way.

366
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:03,900
In a good way.

367
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,800
Because my initial thought would be someone who doesn't really believe in this stuff in

368
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,780
Oklahoma in the Bible, you say, "Jesus is telling me to tell you this coming through me."

369
00:23:10,780 --> 00:23:12,660
They go, "Oh, you are definitely the devil."

370
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:15,460
Because only people that can talk to Jesus are priests, right?

371
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:19,340
So well, unless it's something that they needed to hear and that they were praying about that

372
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morning.

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00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:27,420
And that's typically what happens is if I allow myself to be in a vulnerable space and allow

374
00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:31,060
myself to bring those messages through, because that's a huge part of it.

375
00:23:31,060 --> 00:23:36,060
Like if I'm feeling scared that they're going to judge me, I might not allow it to come

376
00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:37,060
through.

377
00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:39,660
And then these beautiful things don't happen.

378
00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:45,140
But when I allow myself to be in that space and give the messages that are coming through,

379
00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:46,140
everything changes.

380
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:47,860
It's a game changer.

381
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:50,820
So now you're bringing up Jesus.

382
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:54,500
And a lot of people, I think, would find that as that's a bridge that makes it okay, but

383
00:23:54,500 --> 00:24:01,460
a lot of people might think differently, "How would you define Jesus?"

384
00:24:01,460 --> 00:24:02,700
That Jesus that's coming to you?

385
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:07,340
Is it the traditional, you know, the son of God, Jesus, or is Jesus just a teacher?

386
00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:10,940
Like, a little bit of all of those things.

387
00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:19,140
So my teachings that I have received are that the traditional Jesus that's in the Bible

388
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:21,260
isn't 100% accurate.

389
00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:24,260
There's a lot of perception that was placed into those stories.

390
00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:29,860
There's a lot of belief that is wrapped around all of the stories that are in the Bible

391
00:24:29,860 --> 00:24:36,980
that isn't 100% accurate, but it was a way to connect with the people in those times

392
00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:40,740
as is everything that is taught spiritually at this point.

393
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:44,660
It's a way to connect with people and bring them back to source energy.

394
00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:51,900
So while I believe that the Jesus of the Bible existed, there are aspects of that that I

395
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,300
do not believe are accurate.

396
00:24:55,300 --> 00:25:01,500
When I do talk to him, he does confirm that, that not everything that is there is accurate.

397
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:08,220
And so he is a being who is here to teach us, who is meant to bridge that gap and bring

398
00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:10,100
us back to our source energy.

399
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:15,260
So bring us back to God, whatever name you give that.

400
00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:19,740
And he has, when I met him, I didn't know who he was.

401
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:26,580
As a child, I was not in religion, but a lot of my family was and I was judged because

402
00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:27,580
of that.

403
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:31,020
I don't know how many times of it as a child I was told I was going to hell.

404
00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:37,900
And so my thought of Jesus as a child was that he is going to be there to help the judgment.

405
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:43,020
He is going to be there to be mean to me because I am a horrible person and I am going to hell.

406
00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:49,900
And so as a child, when I was introduced to him, another spirit that I spoke with when I

407
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:55,620
was a child introduced me to him, introduced me to him as J, not as Jesus.

408
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:57,740
Did he have a backwards cap on?

409
00:25:57,740 --> 00:25:58,740
He did not.

410
00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:00,780
I will see what I was.

411
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:04,660
Now I am going to ask him to dress like that.

412
00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:13,540
But I didn't know that it was Jesus because his presence was very different than the presence

413
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:17,860
that I was given from the beliefs of people around me.

414
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:25,340
And so as I got to know him more, I actually found out who he was still as a child, but I

415
00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:26,340
was angry.

416
00:26:26,340 --> 00:26:28,220
I was angry that he lied to me.

417
00:26:28,220 --> 00:26:31,140
I was angry that I didn't know who he was.

418
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:34,340
And it was a big deal for me.

419
00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:37,900
And so my relationship with him has been very strong since I was a child.

420
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:41,540
I just didn't know that who it was.

421
00:26:41,540 --> 00:26:49,740
And so as I get older and people question my relationship with Jesus and my relationship

422
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:56,100
with God, my relationship with source, I always go back to as a child, he would come to

423
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:58,660
me and say, you know the truth.

424
00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:00,220
You know where you're going.

425
00:27:00,220 --> 00:27:05,060
Like you are on a path of love and peace.

426
00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:06,660
You are not going to hell.

427
00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:09,460
Like he would remind me all the time as a child.

428
00:27:09,460 --> 00:27:14,100
And that is the energy that I wish to impart to other people.

429
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:17,980
Like when they do have questions and they have concerns about me talking about Jesus and

430
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:24,260
me having a relationship with Jesus, so many people have come to me and said, I want to

431
00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:27,060
understand how to have a relationship like that.

432
00:27:27,060 --> 00:27:34,660
Like once they understand that my relationship isn't one of less for me and just saying

433
00:27:34,660 --> 00:27:40,420
everything is wrong about the church because that's not at all what I believe.

434
00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:46,460
It creates a different experience and it creates a different conversation with people

435
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:48,060
around that.

436
00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:52,900
But I do believe that the Jesus that I talk to is a little bit of all of that.

437
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:53,900
Right.

438
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:54,900
That makes great sense.

439
00:27:54,900 --> 00:28:00,580
And Karen and I are both big believers that there's a lot of different paths out there.

440
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:04,540
Religion, Christianity happens to be one of those paths or actually it's one of many paths

441
00:28:04,540 --> 00:28:05,540
right.

442
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:07,100
There's many paths inside of Christianity.

443
00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:13,140
But regardless if it speaks to you, if Jesus is this person that you really have a relationship

444
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:15,860
with and it works for you, then we say go for it.

445
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:20,860
We support you 100% the challenge with us is and someone tells us that that's the only

446
00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:21,860
path.

447
00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:22,860
Yeah.

448
00:28:22,860 --> 00:28:23,860
That's where I have a problem.

449
00:28:23,860 --> 00:28:28,140
I've encountered a lot of that where you are on the wrong path and would need to get you

450
00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:35,860
back into the fold with people saying that about me or me feeling that way on my own.

451
00:28:35,860 --> 00:28:36,860
Either one.

452
00:28:36,860 --> 00:28:37,860
Oh.

453
00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:38,860
Oh.

454
00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:42,580
I've had other people tell me that where they think that I'm on the wrong path.

455
00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:46,420
I've had many people ask to do exorcisms.

456
00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:49,020
I've had many people out of here.

457
00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:50,020
Yeah.

458
00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:51,020
In Minnesota.

459
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:52,020
I had exercise you.

460
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:57,100
I had a couple of those when I was younger.

461
00:28:57,100 --> 00:28:58,860
Those were always interesting conversations.

462
00:28:58,860 --> 00:28:59,860
You get it.

463
00:28:59,860 --> 00:29:03,140
I'm like, I think I might have just done it just to see.

464
00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:04,940
See what happens.

465
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:05,940
Hey.

466
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,180
There's stuff a bunch of pea soup in your mouth.

467
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:10,180
Wow.

468
00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:11,900
Why didn't I want to?

469
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:13,660
I didn't want to make it worse.

470
00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:21,260
No, so I had a lot of those conversations where people were very judgmental about it.

471
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:24,460
I've never felt like I was on the wrong path.

472
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:27,220
That's just not been part of my experience.

473
00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:28,420
I've always known.

474
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:34,340
I mean, when you constantly have people in your ear telling you, hey, check yourself right

475
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:35,340
now.

476
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:36,340
What are you thinking?

477
00:29:36,340 --> 00:29:38,820
What are you believing?

478
00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:41,260
It makes it a little bit easier when you listen.

479
00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:45,020
You're a medium, but you don't do medium-ship readings.

480
00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:47,100
Is there a reason for that?

481
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:48,300
There is.

482
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,860
I had a lot of trauma around that as a child.

483
00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:53,420
There was a lot of fear for a long time.

484
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:57,380
I didn't want to do that because I didn't want the people saying prove it, prove it, prove

485
00:29:57,380 --> 00:29:58,700
it.

486
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,020
Spirit has come in many times and said, you know what?

487
00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:02,380
That's not what we're here to do.

488
00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:04,660
We're not here to be a game for people.

489
00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:09,460
We're not going to prove it if they ask us to prove it, which I argue with them every

490
00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:10,460
time.

491
00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:12,820
I'm like, you're making me look like really bad.

492
00:30:12,820 --> 00:30:13,820
Just comment.

493
00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:15,820
Tell them.

494
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:24,140
But I have learned in the last probably five, six years that sometimes people hold on to

495
00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:30,100
their loved ones after they passed so much that they continually seek out mediums to speak

496
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,780
to their loved ones and it keeps them stuck.

497
00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:38,380
And there are so many other tools that I have and so many other opportunities that I have

498
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:40,620
to work with people to help them heal.

499
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:45,300
That's sometimes bringing in the medium-ship piece is not the piece that they need because

500
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:49,300
then they're going to rely on that because they know that they can always go back and

501
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,340
talk to that person through somebody else.

502
00:30:52,340 --> 00:30:58,980
I'd rather teach people how to interact on their own and how to feel and sense what's

503
00:30:58,980 --> 00:31:03,920
going on around them rather than be the constant conduit that they're coming back to paying

504
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,140
money to do something that they could do themselves.

505
00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:10,180
Is that akin to like a psychic development or medium-ship development?

506
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:14,700
Of course that you offer them so you teach people how to channel their own loved ones.

507
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:18,500
So I've started doing that recently.

508
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:20,900
I used to do it just talk to people about it.

509
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,260
I'm somebody who tries to help people anyway that I possibly can.

510
00:31:24,260 --> 00:31:27,980
If they come to me, I'm going to teach them what I can teach them.

511
00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:33,460
I'm a teacher by nature and I just love helping people.

512
00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:38,740
So people have been asking me for years to develop a program so I'm in the beginning phases

513
00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:41,260
of that right now.

514
00:31:41,260 --> 00:31:45,860
To help people so that they don't have to come to me all the time.

515
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:48,660
That's a message that we get from a lot of the people that we talk to.

516
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:49,900
Everybody has this ability.

517
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:51,700
You just have to connect.

518
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:56,060
What would you say is the biggest block that people have that keeps us from being able

519
00:31:56,060 --> 00:31:57,740
to connect?

520
00:31:57,740 --> 00:32:00,460
I think the biggest block is their own fear.

521
00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:04,740
People are so afraid that if they do connect, they're either going to get it wrong, they're

522
00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:10,100
going to be judged or they're going to open up something that they can't close.

523
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,100
Like that's the biggest thing.

524
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:15,900
I've heard from so many people, if I open this up, what if I can't close it?

525
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:17,060
What if I get overwhelmed?

526
00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:20,620
What if I get too much information?

527
00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:21,940
You can always close it.

528
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:27,220
Once you know how to open yourself and close yourself off, you can always close that down

529
00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:29,620
if you don't feel comfortable with it.

530
00:32:29,620 --> 00:32:30,620
That's interesting.

531
00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:32,780
I'm in the other camp where you have to bring it, bring it, bring it.

532
00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:33,780
Come on.

533
00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:34,780
Why aren't you bringing it?

534
00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:35,780
Come on.

535
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:36,780
What the heck?

536
00:32:36,780 --> 00:32:37,780
I get frustrated.

537
00:32:37,780 --> 00:32:38,780
I'm much more of a...

538
00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:39,780
I don't know if I believe this.

539
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:41,780
I think I'm making this up.

540
00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:43,300
I was just going to ask you that.

541
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:47,780
How do you know that it's actual messages that you're not just making it up?

542
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:48,780
Yeah.

543
00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:49,780
Let me tell you.

544
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:54,780
When I'm channeling, when I actually allow people to speak through me, the words are so

545
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:55,780
much different.

546
00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:58,180
The mannerisms are different.

547
00:32:58,180 --> 00:33:01,940
I record any sessions that I do online.

548
00:33:01,940 --> 00:33:03,780
I've had the opportunity to go back.

549
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:05,780
Sometimes, look at it and I'm like, who is that?

550
00:33:05,780 --> 00:33:06,780
Oh my gosh.

551
00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:07,780
What is going on?

552
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,660
That's awesome.

553
00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:15,980
It was kind of testing it out, allowing myself to give messages to people.

554
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:22,020
Then every time that somebody'd say it was accurate, okay, that's another check mark.

555
00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:23,900
That's another check mark.

556
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:25,340
It's really just practice.

557
00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:30,360
I mean, anything that you do, you're not going to trust that you do it well until you've

558
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,340
done it and often you've practiced.

559
00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:33,340
Right.

560
00:33:33,340 --> 00:33:38,140
I suppose when other people tell you, yes, you've completely changed.

561
00:33:38,140 --> 00:33:41,540
You had different demeanor about your words were different.

562
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:46,940
It didn't fit what you typically say when you get enough of that positive reinforcement.

563
00:33:46,940 --> 00:33:49,500
You start to go, okay, maybe there's something here.

564
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:50,500
Right.

565
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:51,500
Yeah.

566
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,500
And I'm not a very good actress.

567
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:53,500
I'm horrible at it.

568
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:59,020
So for me to try to do those things, there's no way in heck that I would do that.

569
00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,540
No way because I get very shy.

570
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:03,020
I'm like, what?

571
00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:04,020
I look silly.

572
00:34:04,020 --> 00:34:05,820
I know I look silly.

573
00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:08,500
Well, I just, I would not be the person who is in theater.

574
00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:14,420
I would not be the person who is on, yeah, like I can talk, but you ask me to act no

575
00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:15,420
way.

576
00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:19,460
And it's funny because we hear that a lot from a lot of people like scientific people going,

577
00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:22,940
yeah, this is bad shit, crazy, but it's coming out of my mouth.

578
00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:23,940
I don't understand it either.

579
00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:24,940
Right.

580
00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:28,060
To me, it seems like it's crazy to me, but yet there it is.

581
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:32,660
There is a spirit baby standing in the corner and I very clearly see it.

582
00:34:32,660 --> 00:34:34,020
How do you discern that?

583
00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:36,460
Like how do you talk about shutting it off?

584
00:34:36,460 --> 00:34:40,740
We've heard time and time again that this entity is here and it's not leaving me alone.

585
00:34:40,740 --> 00:34:44,580
I need an angel to come help get that entity off of me.

586
00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:47,860
Should you not attempt to do this until you learn how to close it off?

587
00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:48,860
Are you opening it up?

588
00:34:48,860 --> 00:34:50,940
Some sort of can of words?

589
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:57,060
I mean, it depends on the your own boundaries and what you know about yourself.

590
00:34:57,060 --> 00:35:02,060
A lot of the time when people have these experiences and they have a lot of fearful experiences

591
00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:05,620
or they have attachments, they have things that are coming into their lives, they're allowing

592
00:35:05,620 --> 00:35:08,100
it at some level.

593
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:15,900
So most of the time it is teaching yourself to trust yourself and to set boundaries for

594
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:16,900
yourself.

595
00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:21,300
Usually if you have poor boundaries in the spirit realm, you also have poor boundaries

596
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:23,340
in the human realm.

597
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:30,460
So if you're seeing something in the spiritual world, it's probably a mirror for you on

598
00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:35,820
the way that you're interacting in your life and internally looking at what's going on for

599
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:42,540
you internally is going to help you manage the spiritual stuff more completely.

600
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:47,060
And if you're not really good at setting boundaries, you can just use what I use which is avoidance.

601
00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:50,420
I avoid bad situations in bad people.

602
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:53,620
Again, bad, so now we're back to the level.

603
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:56,300
Hey, it works for me.

604
00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:01,620
So then I would avoid the bad spirits and just, I'm not listening to you.

605
00:36:01,620 --> 00:36:02,620
You're not there.

606
00:36:02,620 --> 00:36:04,620
But it doesn't exist.

607
00:36:04,620 --> 00:36:05,620
Exactly.

608
00:36:05,620 --> 00:36:06,620
Yeah, yeah.

609
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:12,340
Well, and so the other piece of that though is being very strong with your knowing.

610
00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:16,340
Like knowing that you don't want this to be part of your life, you don't want this

611
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:21,740
specific entity or the specific spirit stepping into your life and being very clear on

612
00:36:21,740 --> 00:36:27,060
that and setting that boundary and holding that boundary.

613
00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:31,380
And that's where a lot of people waver is they'll say, Oh, no, I really, I don't want this

614
00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:33,180
being to be here.

615
00:36:33,180 --> 00:36:37,500
But then at some level, they're gaining something from that.

616
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:43,540
It's either they're gaining some type of interaction with people around them where they're

617
00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:48,660
getting, they're getting soothing, they're getting calming.

618
00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:53,740
There's a lot of things that we can gain from perceived negative experiences.

619
00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:59,580
And if you don't know yourself and you don't know that you are seeking something else outside

620
00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:04,740
of you, those things are going to continue happening and tell your firm in your boundaries

621
00:37:04,740 --> 00:37:08,460
and your firm in knowing yourself.

622
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:09,900
That makes so much sense.

623
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:10,900
Yeah, absolutely.

624
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:11,900
It does.

625
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:12,900
And that explains everything for me.

626
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:13,900
I have no boundaries.

627
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:14,900
Damn it.

628
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:15,900
Avoid.

629
00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:16,900
Avoid.

630
00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:24,660
We've already talked about that to your medium, but you're also you're an author, your massage

631
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:29,300
there, an intuitive massage therapist, you're a psychic healer, your intuitive artist, you

632
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,580
do all kinds of stuff.

633
00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:35,020
So I want to touch on one of them specifically in that.

634
00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:39,700
Oh, you're also podcast host, but you have a podcast about the woo with a partner.

635
00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:40,700
Yep.

636
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:42,020
First of all, what's the name of the podcast?

637
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:43,740
We can put it on those show notes for you.

638
00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:46,180
It's called they call us woo.

639
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:47,180
W-O-O.

640
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:48,180
Yeah.

641
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:49,180
Yeah.

642
00:37:49,180 --> 00:37:50,180
I thought it was like Wu Tang clan.

643
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:51,180
Yeah.

644
00:37:51,180 --> 00:37:52,180
They call us woo.

645
00:37:52,180 --> 00:37:54,180
Why I spelled it out.

646
00:37:54,180 --> 00:37:55,180
All right.

647
00:37:55,180 --> 00:38:01,860
But you're also an author and the book that you wrote is astounding to me.

648
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:05,260
It's one that I'm actually going to get because it sounds right up my alley.

649
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:07,420
It's called a life lived medium.

650
00:38:07,420 --> 00:38:10,060
A psychic's journey from fearful to almost fearless.

651
00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:16,140
And it kind of recounts your story growing up, having access to these gifts and and

652
00:38:16,140 --> 00:38:18,020
having to deal with these kinds of things.

653
00:38:18,020 --> 00:38:21,260
What led you to write this book?

654
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:23,900
So I actually didn't write it to publish it.

655
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:30,060
I wrote it to get out my own emotions and learn from my experiences.

656
00:38:30,060 --> 00:38:32,220
And I started writing, started writing, started writing.

657
00:38:32,220 --> 00:38:36,300
And then I went to an event at my attorney's office.

658
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:38,540
She had me doing chair massage there.

659
00:38:38,540 --> 00:38:41,540
And there was a woman in my chair.

660
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:45,420
And this man, the spirit came in and he kept telling me.

661
00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:47,540
He kept bugging me the whole time she was there.

662
00:38:47,540 --> 00:38:49,580
And I'm like, I am in a professional setting.

663
00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:52,260
I am not delivering messages right now.

664
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:54,260
Jen, you need said boundaries.

665
00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:56,740
Back to the back of your head.

666
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:57,740
Back to the back of your head.

667
00:38:57,740 --> 00:38:59,980
I was trying to do that.

668
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:02,060
And he just kept, he just kept on.

669
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:03,260
He's like, you need to tell her this.

670
00:39:03,260 --> 00:39:04,260
You need to tell her this.

671
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:05,260
You need to tell her this.

672
00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:09,420
So I delivered this message to her after she got off my chair.

673
00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:12,340
And she just started crying.

674
00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:15,380
And she said to me, she goes, have you ever thought about writing a book?

675
00:39:15,380 --> 00:39:20,780
And I was like, no, but I've been writing some stuff.

676
00:39:20,780 --> 00:39:25,420
And she's like, I'm a publisher and I want to publish your book.

677
00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:29,860
And I was like, well, crap, that went, that's that, that, like, crap.

678
00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:32,420
You said you are going to have a book.

679
00:39:32,420 --> 00:39:34,420
No choice in the matter.

680
00:39:34,420 --> 00:39:38,780
And I've wanted to write a book since I was a child, but I was never somebody who did a

681
00:39:38,780 --> 00:39:40,060
lot of reading.

682
00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:41,620
My grandma was a librarian.

683
00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:43,340
Everybody in my family read and I did.

684
00:39:43,340 --> 00:39:48,420
So I felt like it wasn't okay for me to write a book because they needed their opportunity

685
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:51,300
first because they put in the work reading.

686
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:55,140
And I don't know where I got that idea, but I did.

687
00:39:55,140 --> 00:40:00,660
And so when she brought that up to me, I was like, okay, I guess this is my time.

688
00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:03,540
And so I went home and I continued writing.

689
00:40:03,540 --> 00:40:10,460
And when the editor got it, she messaged me and she said, Jen, you're censoring yourself.

690
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:13,100
There's pieces missing here.

691
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:17,820
And I was like, I wrote everything that I remember.

692
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:19,620
And I was kind of upset.

693
00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:22,420
And so I put it away for like nine months.

694
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:29,420
And then I went back to it one day and my guides and spirit came in and they're like, it's

695
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:33,020
time for you to start actually looking at these memories.

696
00:40:33,020 --> 00:40:38,300
And so I sat in my meditation room sobbing for like eight hours.

697
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:40,820
Oh, I think you're going to say.

698
00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:48,220
Well, I think I did it right because I finally started actually looking at some of the most

699
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:54,620
traumatic moments of my spiritual experiences as a child and started remembering other

700
00:40:54,620 --> 00:41:01,820
pieces and started seeing who was in the room with me and the support that I actually had.

701
00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:03,940
And it was so cathartic for me.

702
00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:07,780
And it was so helpful in my process moving forward.

703
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:13,780
I finished my book in that session, sent it back off to the editor.

704
00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:17,460
She sent it back to me with all kinds of red marks because she said, you write like you speak

705
00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:19,780
and you're horrible with grammar.

706
00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:24,660
But I got it published.

707
00:41:24,660 --> 00:41:29,020
And once I published those like, if anybody reads it, that's fine.

708
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:30,340
If they don't, that's fine too.

709
00:41:30,340 --> 00:41:31,340
I got it out there.

710
00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:33,300
I got to heal.

711
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:37,060
And I had so many people reach out to me afterwards and say, this is exactly what I

712
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:38,060
needed.

713
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:43,900
Like, I've had these experiences since I was young and nobody will talk to me about it.

714
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:46,140
And this is so helpful.

715
00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:49,780
And that was like the best thing that I could have heard.

716
00:41:49,780 --> 00:41:54,220
It was the best thing that could have happened with me publishing that.

717
00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:58,060
Although now everybody thinks they know everything about me because they've seen these really

718
00:41:58,060 --> 00:42:00,620
vulnerable thoughts of my life.

719
00:42:00,620 --> 00:42:02,540
But still, it was worth it.

720
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:07,380
Well, it's interesting that your publisher knew intuitively that you're not disclosing some

721
00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:08,380
things.

722
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:10,780
So sounds like that person has some hidden talents themselves.

723
00:42:10,780 --> 00:42:11,780
Have they?

724
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:13,020
Have you kind of protted them in that day?

725
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:15,620
I've got a psychic medium class coming up soon.

726
00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:19,140
No, but it was actually the editor.

727
00:42:19,140 --> 00:42:24,820
And I haven't talked to her for a long time and she was very open.

728
00:42:24,820 --> 00:42:26,820
So that's interesting.

729
00:42:26,820 --> 00:42:27,820
She noticed that.

730
00:42:27,820 --> 00:42:29,620
I reach out to you again.

731
00:42:29,620 --> 00:42:30,620
Absolutely.

732
00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:32,260
I would definitely recommend it.

733
00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:33,700
So yeah, I'm going to definitely get the books.

734
00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:35,180
It sounds like I'm my alley.

735
00:42:35,180 --> 00:42:40,100
But on top of being an author and intuitive massage therapist and all these medium we already

736
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:43,540
talked about, you do this type of healing which I've never heard of before.

737
00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:46,980
You kind of mix a bunch of different things together.

738
00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:51,060
Massage therapy, energy work, shamanic healing, sound therapy, channeling.

739
00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:53,100
I mean, holy smokes.

740
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:57,420
How did you start bringing all these things into one healing?

741
00:42:57,420 --> 00:42:58,420
All in one.

742
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:59,420
All in one.

743
00:42:59,420 --> 00:43:00,420
Yeah.

744
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:01,420
Yeah.

745
00:43:01,420 --> 00:43:04,900
I am a little fruity sometimes.

746
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:11,260
Yeah, just a lot of elements that come out into a delicious, you know, you would never

747
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:15,140
know Karen cooks, huh?

748
00:43:15,140 --> 00:43:18,300
From the heart, maybe.

749
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:23,340
So when I was in Minnesota, I didn't want to tell everybody about my gifts.

750
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:26,620
So I would start integrating things into massage.

751
00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:29,740
Like I said, down here, I lead with massage first.

752
00:43:29,740 --> 00:43:34,780
massage was my cover in Minnesota for a very long time until I could no longer hide because

753
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:36,940
spirit was coming in so clearly.

754
00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:45,660
Like you tell this person, you tell this person now and I had poor boundaries back then.

755
00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:50,660
So I started incorporating some of that work into the sessions that I was doing because spirit

756
00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:54,900
was coming in so clearly for me saying, this person needs sound healing.

757
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:57,060
This person needs to hear this message.

758
00:43:57,060 --> 00:43:59,380
This person needs this.

759
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:05,260
And so I just started incorporating it into my massage sessions and I ended up with a really

760
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:11,580
strong following in Minnesota because people knew that they could come to me and receive

761
00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:16,340
exactly what they were needing in that moment rather than just a massage, not to say that

762
00:44:16,340 --> 00:44:22,140
massage is an awesome because I love massage, but who does it?

763
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:25,540
Sometimes people need more in that session.

764
00:44:25,540 --> 00:44:29,380
And if I can provide that service for them and I can provide something that's going to

765
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:32,820
help them heal more quickly, I'm going to do that.

766
00:44:32,820 --> 00:44:39,900
So when I have a client on the table, if they're open to receiving something other than massage,

767
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:47,220
I will ask their guides, I will ask spirit to come in and provide whatever we need for

768
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:48,220
that session.

769
00:44:48,220 --> 00:44:49,220
Okay.

770
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:53,500
So you actually ask them if you're open to it, it's not like, oh, what was that kind of thing?

771
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:54,500
Yeah, no.

772
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:55,500
Okay.

773
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,500
I've been running up for before they get on the table.

774
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:59,980
You don't mean they're naked and I'll say, whoa.

775
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:02,340
I think it's worth running around you.

776
00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:03,340
Yeah.

777
00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:05,340
I think what's happening.

778
00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:08,780
So it is one of those things where I connect in with their guides.

779
00:45:08,780 --> 00:45:11,260
I ask their higher self for permission.

780
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:12,900
I'll talk to them ahead of time.

781
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:18,220
They usually know if they're signing up for that type of session here in Oklahoma, I have

782
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:19,540
two separate services.

783
00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:24,420
I have massage services and I have my intuitive massage services and my cosmic realignment

784
00:45:24,420 --> 00:45:25,420
services.

785
00:45:25,420 --> 00:45:30,940
So like, I have different services they can choose from so they know before they are getting

786
00:45:30,940 --> 00:45:33,860
on the table.

787
00:45:33,860 --> 00:45:39,300
And yeah, whatever happens during a session, it's all divinely guided.

788
00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:44,100
And we just make sure that people are receiving what they need to receive, both are on the table.

789
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:45,100
That's cool.

790
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:46,100
That's cool.

791
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:48,100
You're like the one-stop shop for Oklahoma.

792
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:50,100
That is spiritual health.

793
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:51,100
Yeah.

794
00:45:51,100 --> 00:45:57,140
You're healing our us, circling it back to the beginning of the conversation again about

795
00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:58,140
your move.

796
00:45:58,140 --> 00:46:01,660
What prompted you to go to Oklahoma?

797
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:02,900
My fiance lives here.

798
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:03,900
Good reason.

799
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:04,900
Good reason.

800
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:05,900
This is your man.

801
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:06,900
Yeah.

802
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:07,900
Or woman.

803
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:09,900
That's not the judgmental.

804
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:10,900
That's right.

805
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:14,060
Yeah, but yeah.

806
00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:20,260
So he is here and I was feeling very called.

807
00:46:20,260 --> 00:46:23,940
I was like, there was somewhere else I was needing to be for the last few years.

808
00:46:23,940 --> 00:46:31,380
I was feeling like I was going to end up moving somewhere and I ended up meeting him and

809
00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:33,980
had no intention of moving to Oklahoma.

810
00:46:33,980 --> 00:46:37,980
I actually loved living in Minnesota, all the trees in the water and the beauty that's

811
00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:39,900
there.

812
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:44,420
And so when I ended up moving here, I'm like, okay, I heard you guys two years ago, I guess

813
00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:46,580
this is where I was supposed to go.

814
00:46:46,580 --> 00:46:47,580
So I'm here.

815
00:46:47,580 --> 00:46:48,580
Yeah.

816
00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:51,940
I'm supposed to help them to awaken in the Bible belt.

817
00:46:51,940 --> 00:46:55,420
So thank you for the service that you're providing because that is not for the week of

818
00:46:55,420 --> 00:46:56,420
heart.

819
00:46:56,420 --> 00:47:00,900
But I have been wondering the whole time when we're talking about the chamber meetings.

820
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:05,620
And as a psychic and medium and channeler and intuitive, you have all these people that

821
00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:11,820
probably a lot of them are quite conservative and maybe leaning kind of far one direction

822
00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:12,820
or another.

823
00:47:12,820 --> 00:47:15,580
Do you see like their energies and you're like, oh, we don't want to talk to that guy.

824
00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:19,380
Like do you get them barred with like the different energies from people or do you just shut it

825
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:21,780
off and you're strictly business in those meetings?

826
00:47:21,780 --> 00:47:27,620
So a lot of the time I will dim, I will dim it so that I'm not completely shut off.

827
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:31,660
I'm not one of the people who really likes to completely shut down when everything's quiet

828
00:47:31,660 --> 00:47:37,820
I panic because I'm so used to having so much chatter in the background.

829
00:47:37,820 --> 00:47:42,100
There haven't been any times where I've been like, oh, I'm not going to talk to that person.

830
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:47,580
There have been times where I've noticed that somebody walks into the room and their energies

831
00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:50,940
different than it normally is.

832
00:47:50,940 --> 00:47:56,540
And typically I end up finding out later that something was going on with them that day.

833
00:47:56,540 --> 00:48:02,460
They were having really stressful moment or somebody was in the hospital or yeah.

834
00:48:02,460 --> 00:48:10,460
So usually it's not, I try really hard not to jump into people's energy fields without permission.

835
00:48:10,460 --> 00:48:19,220
I have very strong moral and ethical beliefs around what you can and can't do as a psychic

836
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:23,620
because nobody wants you just jumping into their business and being like, hey, let me tell

837
00:48:23,620 --> 00:48:26,220
you all about yourself.

838
00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:34,020
But sometimes when you're walking into a room of people, it's hard not to see the aura that's

839
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:38,420
around them or the energy that they're carrying with and feel that energy.

840
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:43,780
If I notice that something is off, I typically will shut down so that I'm not diving into

841
00:48:43,780 --> 00:48:47,660
those, they're personal business.

842
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:52,580
Like if I find out their personal business later, that's good.

843
00:48:52,580 --> 00:48:56,820
I can have a conversation with them about it then, but I'm not going to energetically tap

844
00:48:56,820 --> 00:48:59,340
in and be like, oh, what's going on with them today?

845
00:48:59,340 --> 00:49:00,340
Right.

846
00:49:00,340 --> 00:49:01,340
Right.

847
00:49:01,340 --> 00:49:02,340
That makes sense.

848
00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:06,860
Now you also have a website that you sent over to us, spiritinurb.com and that's where

849
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:08,860
you have all your services there and things like that.

850
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:13,460
These things that people can take advantage of remotely or is most of your stuff really

851
00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:15,700
just, you got to come sit on my table.

852
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:18,620
No, so really the only thing that I don't do remotely is massage.

853
00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:20,620
That wouldn't feel as good.

854
00:49:20,620 --> 00:49:22,620
And that wouldn't be weird.

855
00:49:22,620 --> 00:49:25,620
I was really hit the forehead too.

856
00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:27,220
I've had on your back.

857
00:49:27,220 --> 00:49:32,260
I wish I could, but I haven't quite figured that out yet.

858
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:33,500
Well, the world of virtual reality, right?

859
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:34,500
I'm on this corner.

860
00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:35,500
You never know.

861
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:36,500
Yeah.

862
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:41,580
So everything else I do online, I usually do things through Zoom, record it and then they

863
00:49:41,580 --> 00:49:46,580
get a recording of all their sessions so they can go back and listen later because a lot

864
00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:50,460
of the time in the moment as people are trying to heal something, you don't remember what

865
00:49:50,460 --> 00:49:51,460
was said.

866
00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:52,460
Right.

867
00:49:52,460 --> 00:49:55,820
So they receive what they were meant to receive in that moment and then they can come

868
00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:59,660
back at two a later and listen to the messages that were provided that are for later.

869
00:49:59,660 --> 00:50:01,260
Gotcha.

870
00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:07,500
And you have graciously extended a discount to skeptic manifestation listeners.

871
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:10,140
We are not going to reveal what that code is here.

872
00:50:10,140 --> 00:50:16,140
If you want to access the discount, and it's not a 5% discount, it is a nice discount

873
00:50:16,140 --> 00:50:18,820
for them to check out your services.

874
00:50:18,820 --> 00:50:21,140
Go ahead and sign up for our community.

875
00:50:21,140 --> 00:50:22,540
It's totally free.

876
00:50:22,540 --> 00:50:25,860
You just have to be okay with us sending you an email once a week.

877
00:50:25,860 --> 00:50:26,860
We don't bother you.

878
00:50:26,860 --> 00:50:27,860
We don't sell you anything.

879
00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:28,860
We don't do anything like that.

880
00:50:28,860 --> 00:50:32,980
Skeptic manifestation community and you will have access to not just GENZ discount codes

881
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:37,820
but a lot of our past guest discount codes so that you can experience their services for

882
00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:40,780
yourself in a much more cost effective way.

883
00:50:40,780 --> 00:50:41,780
Thank you for that by the way.

884
00:50:41,780 --> 00:50:43,780
Yes, of course.

885
00:50:43,780 --> 00:50:48,380
So we are woefully out of time, but I really want to hear about they call us woo.

886
00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:53,620
What kind of topics is it similar to what we do or do you just go deep on in the end of

887
00:50:53,620 --> 00:50:54,620
the woo?

888
00:50:54,620 --> 00:50:58,580
Well, so I talk a lot because I'm chatty.

889
00:50:58,580 --> 00:50:59,980
I guess that I like to teach.

890
00:50:59,980 --> 00:51:03,260
We pick topics that people have asked us about.

891
00:51:03,260 --> 00:51:05,740
It can be any woo, woo topic.

892
00:51:05,740 --> 00:51:08,820
We do have guests that come on sporadically.

893
00:51:08,820 --> 00:51:12,860
Lately we've been doing a lot more of just Tammy and I talking.

894
00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:14,900
Tammy's my co-host.

895
00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:18,220
I've been in the woo room for a very long time.

896
00:51:18,220 --> 00:51:23,780
Tammy is newer to the woo and she actually approached me and said, "Hey, I'm thinking about

897
00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:26,860
doing this podcast and I want you to be on it with me."

898
00:51:26,860 --> 00:51:31,100
I was like, "Oh my gosh, because she told me she wanted it to be they call us woo."

899
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:37,540
I was developing a product line that was all products that had woo in the title.

900
00:51:37,540 --> 00:51:40,020
But I hadn't launched it and I was like, "This is why?"

901
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:44,180
Because they're going to go with our they call us woo line.

902
00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:50,620
But so there's all kinds of weird woo puns that I have put on everything I love puns.

903
00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:51,620
I love puns.

904
00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:52,620
I love that.

905
00:51:52,620 --> 00:51:56,540
You got to have Keanu when your website going woo.

906
00:51:56,540 --> 00:51:59,260
I could work on that.

907
00:51:59,260 --> 00:52:01,940
I'm talking about that.

908
00:52:01,940 --> 00:52:04,140
That would be awesome.

909
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:10,180
So we started talking about all the woo, woo topics and we dive deep into a lot of things

910
00:52:10,180 --> 00:52:14,260
and talk about things that people can get a little bit uncomfortable and a little bit

911
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:16,780
spicy about.

912
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:21,940
But I'm willing to talk about those things from a spiritual perspective and a human perspective.

913
00:52:21,940 --> 00:52:25,980
And both Tammy and I are on the same page that we just want people to have the conversations

914
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:31,220
and have a place to talk about these things and hear about these things where it feels

915
00:52:31,220 --> 00:52:32,540
safe for them.

916
00:52:32,540 --> 00:52:33,540
That's fantastic.

917
00:52:33,540 --> 00:52:35,300
And I have just one more question before we go.

918
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:38,420
We talk about getting out of the spiritual closet, which now I'm thinking it's one like

919
00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:42,060
you're bringing them in, but the closet is like the tardis, so it's really huge inside.

920
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:46,300
But what would you say to someone who is kind of really having these feelings, but just

921
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:48,380
doesn't really want to get out there.

922
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:49,380
They're concerned about judgment.

923
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:51,580
What advice would you give to someone?

924
00:52:51,580 --> 00:52:58,700
So I always tell people just feel in your heart, like stay heart-centered.

925
00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:02,660
Most of the time when people are feeling fear, it's because they're on the verge of breaking

926
00:53:02,660 --> 00:53:03,860
through something.

927
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:07,340
If they're scared that they're going to be judged, there's judgment within their heart

928
00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:08,340
too.

929
00:53:08,340 --> 00:53:10,940
Like I said earlier, we get mirrors.

930
00:53:10,940 --> 00:53:14,020
There's a mirror outside of us of what's going on inside.

931
00:53:14,020 --> 00:53:19,500
So if you're judging yourself about it and you feel like there's something wrong with

932
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:21,540
it, you're going to receive that.

933
00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:28,020
So the first step is always looking within yourself and figuring out where you're judging yourself

934
00:53:28,020 --> 00:53:32,340
and where you're not holding yourself responsible for the thoughts and the feelings that you

935
00:53:32,340 --> 00:53:33,940
have.

936
00:53:33,940 --> 00:53:41,620
And then find another person who is in a spiritual role and talked to them about it first.

937
00:53:41,620 --> 00:53:46,780
Once you start getting more comfortable talking to one person, it becomes easier.

938
00:53:46,780 --> 00:53:51,180
Everything's about practice, everything's about experiencing life fully.

939
00:53:51,180 --> 00:53:56,260
And once we can start taking those steps to move forward, it's much easier for us to walk

940
00:53:56,260 --> 00:53:57,740
through the fears that we have.

941
00:53:57,740 --> 00:54:00,980
And you also build that community and you can walk through it together.

942
00:54:00,980 --> 00:54:01,980
Yep.

943
00:54:01,980 --> 00:54:02,980
Yep.

944
00:54:02,980 --> 00:54:07,420
In the Hindu tradition, it is very, in fact, you cannot reach enlightenment without having

945
00:54:07,420 --> 00:54:09,100
a guru to help you lead the way.

946
00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:11,660
So that makes sense.

947
00:54:11,660 --> 00:54:12,660
This has been fantastic.

948
00:54:12,660 --> 00:54:15,220
I've had such a fun time chatting with you.

949
00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:17,460
I know we're going to be friends for a long time after this.

950
00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:22,700
We should have very best in there in Oklahoma or Minnesota, wherever you want to do your stuff.

951
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:25,700
You have now officially gained a new faggot on your show.

952
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:27,740
I'm really looking forward to hearing that.

953
00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:31,180
And thank you so much for the service you're providing there.

954
00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:36,100
You're helping people wake up all across the state of Oklahoma and across the world now

955
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:38,820
by being willing to come on the show and talk about the stuff that you do.

956
00:54:38,820 --> 00:54:39,820
So thank you for that.

957
00:54:39,820 --> 00:54:40,820
Thank you.

958
00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:41,820
Thank you both so much.

959
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:43,660
I'm so grateful that I could be here today.

960
00:54:43,660 --> 00:54:44,660
Yeah.

961
00:54:44,660 --> 00:54:45,660
I really enjoyed talking to you.

962
00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:50,500
Pleasure has been ours and we'll talk to you again real soon.

963
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:52,260
And a huge thank you to you.

964
00:54:52,260 --> 00:54:57,340
Yes, you, the person that hit the play on this episode, we know that there are tons of

965
00:54:57,340 --> 00:54:58,340
options out there.

966
00:54:58,340 --> 00:55:03,020
And having you decide to come along on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor

967
00:55:03,020 --> 00:55:04,300
for us.

968
00:55:04,300 --> 00:55:06,700
We hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have.

969
00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:12,500
If you did and you feel called to give back, we invite you to visit our website at skepticmanifosition.com

970
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:18,260
where you can donate to the show or subscribe as a member through our Buy Me a Coffee campaign.

971
00:55:18,260 --> 00:55:22,260
Your support will go a long way towards allowing Karen and I to bring you these wonderful

972
00:55:22,260 --> 00:55:26,820
conversations and teachings in more and more robust ways.

973
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:31,260
Of course, if contributing to the show content is what you're looking for instead, why we'd

974
00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:35,380
love for you to contribute by sending us a voicemail or an email from our website or leave

975
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:40,580
us a review on Apple podcasts or any other podcasting platform that supports them.

976
00:55:40,580 --> 00:55:43,900
Karen and I love hearing from those that are moved to message us.

977
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:46,460
It truly does fuel our passion.

978
00:55:46,460 --> 00:55:51,100
You are the reason we do this show and knowing what you like and don't like help us craft

979
00:55:51,100 --> 00:55:56,580
the very best show we can so that we can help raise the vibration of the planet together.

980
00:55:56,580 --> 00:55:59,820
Now, if you know someone who would benefit from hearing the message we're sharing on the

981
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:03,660
show, do them and us a favor and share the show with them.

982
00:56:03,660 --> 00:56:08,100
It will help get the word out about us and it might just change someone's life for

983
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:09,100
the better.

984
00:56:09,100 --> 00:56:14,220
Well, that's all for now, we will see you on the next episode of the Skeptic Manifosition.

985
00:56:14,220 --> 00:56:15,700
Until then, take care.

986
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:23,260
[Music]