WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:04.000
Karen, Yes, and he needed to hold onto that chair.
2
00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:04.440
For a second.
3
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:07.919
Okay, now what see, I.
4
00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:11.439
Just want to prepare you arms, I know, but it doesn't.
5
00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:15.080
So today's guest is not a researcher who studies alien abductions.
6
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:19.359
He's someone who's it's actually been happening to his entire life,
7
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:24.559
and he's spent decades questioning everything that the mainstream abduction
8
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.519
community has told him about his own experience.
9
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:29.559
I didn't know there was a mainstream.
10
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:34.640
Abduction community getting you're getting quite the educationion today.
11
00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:35.000
Now.
12
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:37.679
He's also been living with active Kundlini energy for twenty
13
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.679
five years, not practicing, not pursuing it, living with it
14
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:43.600
the way you live with weather. He argues that the
15
00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.560
two of the most talked about phenomenon in the spiritual
16
00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:50.640
and paranormal world, alien abduction and Cundellini, are both wildly
17
00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.880
misrepresented by the very communities built around them. And he's
18
00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.880
going to tell us exactly why he can actually teach
19
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:01.560
us something that theory a practical path from brain to
20
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.959
heart to ego disillusion, drawn from twenty five years of
21
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:08.879
doing it involuntarily. And he lives in Hawaii and raises ducks,
22
00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.159
which somehow makes all this more credible, not less. That
23
00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.239
broke my brain a little bit. Oh no, it didn't hurt.
24
00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.000
It's like a roommate who rearranges your furniture and occasionally
25
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.799
dissolves your ego. So, if you've ever had something happen
26
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.079
to you that you couldn't explain, somebody that didn't fit
27
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.280
any of the categories the Internet gave to you, this
28
00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.920
is the episode where someone finally stopped pretending the map
29
00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:33.120
and the territory are the same thing. Welcome to the
30
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.920
Skeptic Benephysicians. My name is Will, and I'm garious, and
31
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:39.760
unlike moulderin Scully.
32
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:40.359
Both want to believe.
33
00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:42.359
So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.
34
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.040
We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and
35
00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:45.920
my physical world.
36
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.239
We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even
37
00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:49.959
joined a coven, of.
38
00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.480
Which and wait, you joined a coven?
39
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.959
Yep, All the interests of finding something, anything that will
40
00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.400
prove that there's something beyond this physical.
41
00:01:58.120 --> 00:01:59.719
Three dimensional world we all live in.
42
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:14.639
Is the skeptic metapositions. Hey there, I Will, and I'm
43
00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.759
welcome back to the skeptic Metapositions, the show where the
44
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.400
weird thing that happened to you finally get to see
45
00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.840
at the grown up table. You're reading my aim. You
46
00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:24.360
can't read my script. You gotta let me tell you
47
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.000
what I'm saying. You laughed before I said it. I
48
00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:28.400
saw you.
49
00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.360
It's because I'm becoming very psychic. Oh, I knew what.
50
00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:33.919
You're all right? Well, I am thrilled to welcome Jeremy
51
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.159
Vaney to the show. Jeremy, how you doing today?
52
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.000
Great? Thanks for having me.
53
00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.639
Oh, it's a pleasure to have you. We I gotta
54
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.319
I gotta wrap the bat admit something to you because
55
00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.159
it might taint our conversation. Oh, okay, alien abductions is
56
00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.800
my number one fear in the world. So I'm hoping
57
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.520
that you're going to put those fears to rest. When
58
00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.319
you talk about alien abductions and saying that to not
59
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.520
aliens and they're non abductions, What the heck are we
60
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:04.039
talking about?
61
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.960
Then well, it's actually easier to say what we're what
62
00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.319
we're not talking about. What we are talking about. I mean,
63
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.599
I think we are talking about another intelligence. I think
64
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.520
it is not from within the universe, but I think
65
00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.719
it is deeply connected to us. But the idea that
66
00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.039
we are being abducted or that they're aliens you know,
67
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.759
from another planet, or alien doctors even from another dimension,
68
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:32.400
just sort of moving the goalpost but telling the same
69
00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:37.960
story like that is that comes from hypnotic literature, you know,
70
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.360
putting people under hypnosis co creating a story. Hypnosis is
71
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.479
a terrible memory retrieval tool, but a great storytelling tool
72
00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:48.840
and a great way to make up a fantasy by
73
00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:52.080
accident and not know it. So after decades of that,
74
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.240
that's the cottage industry. They you know, came out with
75
00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.680
sort of a cookie cutter alien abduction scenario of again
76
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.879
doctor kind of like us, but gray or some other
77
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:06.439
thing or reptile or whatever doing things that we can
78
00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:11.080
understand with rudimentary implements, creating hybrids and so on and
79
00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.439
so forth. You in all the stories. But if you
80
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.040
take away hypnosis and you actually just speak with experiencers,
81
00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:20.680
you get not the cookie cutter thing, but you get
82
00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.720
something and I'm not saying we're shamans at all, but
83
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.720
something more akin to that where shamanism, where it's like
84
00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:33.240
a lifetime of all sorts of paranormal phenomena that even
85
00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.800
in talking about it, we used to at least used
86
00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.279
to I don't know if we still do, but tended
87
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.959
to self edit because how much is too much before
88
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.160
it becomes too incredible to believe? Like aliens are incredible enough,
89
00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.040
but now add like ghosts and psychic stuff and whatever.
90
00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:52.920
But that's it. It's a lifetime of high strangeness, you know.
91
00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.279
So I think that's where the term took a turn
92
00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:01.319
from alien abductee to experience or of high strangeness. And ultimately,
93
00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.920
I think the thing that's kind of hard to wrap
94
00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:08.879
your head around is what is it doing? What are
95
00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.439
they doing? What is actually going on? If if that's
96
00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:14.360
not it, and.
97
00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.879
Well, let's take a step further back, like if they're
98
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.439
not aliens, what are they?
99
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:26.439
I don't know for sure, but I think that they are.
100
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.560
That they are interdimensional but connected to us. So if
101
00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:33.920
you think about that, there are only a certain amount
102
00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.600
of dimensions that we can comprehend, but we're actually more
103
00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:38.759
dimensional than that. You know, string theory has us I
104
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.800
think at nine dimensions or something like that. That what
105
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.920
if there are beings that are you know, essentially that
106
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.199
we're not autonomous, that there are other beings and we're
107
00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.720
all inter we all have little loops of interconnected people
108
00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.759
that we are and some and we don't know it
109
00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.959
right because we can only see whatever it is three demens.
110
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.000
But they can see more, you know, and maybe you know,
111
00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:05.759
if we wake up to our wholeness, we can see
112
00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.120
more too, and we can know them more as equals
113
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.800
than as some fearful thing that seems to come through
114
00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:15.759
into our lives the more we perceive them. There's this
115
00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.920
notion that you need to perceive them to be here,
116
00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.480
and I think that that is kind of true. So
117
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.600
you were saying that you were fearful of it, and
118
00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.720
I would say that what's interesting is there seems to
119
00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:31.720
be a hook that probably everybody gets a fishing line
120
00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.680
thrown at them in early childhood of a weird experience
121
00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.399
that you either end up contemplating until you end up
122
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.720
in a feedback loop with this intelligence for your life,
123
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.600
or your parents tell you it was a dream, you're
124
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.240
imagining things or whatever, and you believe that, and then
125
00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.759
that sort of cuts it off. So it's a perceptual
126
00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.000
thing in that sense, and not something coming down from
127
00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.879
another planet. And if that connection isn't made in childhood,
128
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.240
will you might get your wish, you may never be
129
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:04.319
abducted by it.
130
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.360
I don't want to I want to be abducted. I
131
00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:08.800
do want to see I do want to see a ship,
132
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:09.879
but I want to see an alien.
133
00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.439
That's the thing. Well, we've had so many different conversations
134
00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.879
and some people hint a very different picture of experiences
135
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:24.199
with extraterrestrial aliens or beings from different I don't know, plants, universessions, dimensions.
136
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.000
How do you know that they're not aliens?
137
00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.639
I'm going to take this from a different angle, which
138
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.519
is because a lot it's been said from like the
139
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.120
normal angle of like, well, then why are they using
140
00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.319
you know, they're they're so advanced that they come here
141
00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:45.439
to use rudimentary implementation to do things that we understand
142
00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.279
like no, but step back from all that and just
143
00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:52.519
look at the word alien. I mean this may seem
144
00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.360
kind of like you know what is, but just think
145
00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.519
about this. Alien is a Western construct. Like if you
146
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:04.439
go to pretty much any indigenous peoples around the world,
147
00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.439
they speak in terms of relations and relatives, right, and
148
00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:13.959
that's not some small thing that's natural. So westerniz's mind
149
00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:18.439
is a separative, divorced mind, divorce from interconnectivity with you know,
150
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.560
with Earth, even with very place that we live. We
151
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.879
like to say we live on earth, not with Earth.
152
00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:26.360
You know. We like to say that we own things,
153
00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.759
not that we're enmeshed in them, and that we're part of,
154
00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:32.559
you know, a web of life. But if that's actually natural,
155
00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:37.000
wouldn't advanced beings be of that mind? Would they come
156
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:42.200
here and do awful alien things? You know? Or is
157
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.320
that perception? Is that just how we perceive them because
158
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.360
in our society and in our culture, we've we've set
159
00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.639
up in us in them, and so they are either
160
00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.799
friend or foe, and if we don't know anything about them,
161
00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:55.240
we get scared. You know.
162
00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:01.720
Well, my fear comes from Whitley Striever's book. I read
163
00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.480
the book when I was in college, and I it
164
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:06.679
freaked me out so badly that my roommate to this
165
00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:08.879
day is mad at me for keeping the lights on
166
00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.399
in that room for two weeks because I couldn't sleep
167
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.360
the other light up with the light on. Because in
168
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:19.120
the book, again you mentioned hypnosis not being a reliable tool,
169
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.360
and yet he did undergo hypnosis where a lot of
170
00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.080
these things came out, and he did find like implants
171
00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.360
and things like that that he remembered or made up
172
00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.639
in his hypnosis sessions. But I would find it hard
173
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.720
to believe that he would have made something up that
174
00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:39.320
actually was found in him if it wasn't a memory.
175
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.000
Well, now, the point is that, for instance, you have
176
00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.960
missing time. So if you if you know, there have
177
00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.960
been plenty of hypnosis studies done that that show that
178
00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:57.000
you fill in gaps with fantasy. Now add missing time
179
00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:01.320
from an unknown from a mystery called aliens. You really
180
00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.000
can't know what that is, you know what I mean?
181
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.320
And so what are you filling in? It's not that
182
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.159
he's not having experiences with this intelligence. It's not that
183
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.759
they maybe didn't even put an implant of some sort
184
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.679
in him. It's that all that unaccounted for stuff that
185
00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:17.200
you're going in to try to flesh out. That's like
186
00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.840
amnesia is well, I'm trying to think. We had a
187
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.919
psychologist tell us once on Peratopia Jeffritzman and I used
188
00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:27.679
to host a show called Perotopia, and he said, it's
189
00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.320
no better or worse than getting someone drunk and trying
190
00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.120
to ask them to tell you the truth. You know,
191
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.120
But Whitley's book, So now I'm friends with Whitley, and
192
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.039
I've spoken to Whitley about all this stuff, and what
193
00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.960
he would tell you is that hypnosis now is bad
194
00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.039
because we all know what the story is and because
195
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.000
the hypnotists are junk, but that back then it was
196
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.399
new and he used the top of the line, you know, police,
197
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.720
forensic whatever, hypnotist and all of that, and so you know,
198
00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.639
you can take that however you want to take that.
199
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.679
I would just say it's unfortunate, but we have to
200
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.720
throw all hypnosis out as testimony to the truth. But
201
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.759
that doesn't diminish his story at all, because he's got
202
00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.080
plenty of stuff that wasn't recovered through hypnosis. And as
203
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.879
an experiencer as in high school when I read this book,
204
00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.080
when I read Communion, it scared me too, but it
205
00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.200
also was enlightening because it was different because it did
206
00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:30.759
say he remain open to the question. Don't just say
207
00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:34.039
it's aliens. You know, he calls them visitors, and you know,
208
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.519
as you know you've read the book, he goes through
209
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.320
a bunch of different sort of possibilities of what it
210
00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.840
could be. And I found that more enlightening, I think
211
00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:46.879
than any of their alien doctors doing doctors things so
212
00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:47.799
I would.
213
00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:50.120
Think, and I think, I get you're saying that the
214
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:57.360
shamanic definition or I don't know how indigenous people's talk
215
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:03.559
about these visitors. It's more akin to family, like ancient
216
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.320
ones and things like that, which I understand that they're
217
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.039
almost like you're making a connection between maybe a long
218
00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.120
lost lineage of ours or something like that from a
219
00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.799
different dimension, or maybe in the future or something like that,
220
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.440
who knows. But then my question then lies in the
221
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.279
fact that if this is truly not an alien abduction,
222
00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:29.080
what do they want and why are they doing it
223
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.840
in a way that's it's scaring the heck out of us.
224
00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:34.519
Well, this is why I think they're interconnected with us,
225
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.200
because I think it is one waking oneself up. You know,
226
00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.720
we appear as two or three or four, but it's
227
00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:44.679
really one waking oneself up. But you can't just do
228
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.360
that by having a sit down conversation. So I think,
229
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:53.879
you know, the abduction phenomenon has been compared to well,
230
00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.200
it's been compared to shamanic stuff. It's also been just
231
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.919
compared to modern myth making a modern path of way
232
00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.279
up or something like that. And I would say that
233
00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.120
it sort of is, but it's only because though it's
234
00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.120
using the languages that we speak that best foster that
235
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:16.360
in us. But the problem is that we want to
236
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.080
define everything and we want to know right. We don't
237
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.519
like to live in the question, as Whitley suggested, we do,
238
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.200
and so it's easy to jump to whatever the consensus
239
00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.440
thing is, like, oh this is aliens, Oh this is whatever.
240
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:30.440
But I mean I've seen in fact, you know, I
241
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.679
talked to Bud Hopkins, who used to be the biggest
242
00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.879
proponent of little alien doctors. He wrote the book Missing Time,
243
00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:39.440
he wrote the book Intruders, and he admitted to me
244
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.720
that he edits or he's dead now, but when he
245
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.919
was live, he would he had outliers. So he had
246
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.440
a story in mind that appealed to him, which was
247
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.000
alien doctors, and he would not take the testimony of
248
00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:59.320
anything else to present that story. I mean, so that's
249
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.639
what that is. And I would just say, like, I mean,
250
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.279
maybe it's a different perspective as an experiencer than someone
251
00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.600
who's looking at it from the outside, because I really
252
00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.720
want to know what's going on, you know what I mean, Like,
253
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.519
I don't want to attach myself to anything because none
254
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.440
of them ring true. Let's put it that way too,
255
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.759
Like none of that stuff rings true. The stuff that
256
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.960
rings true is like live in the question Jacques Vlai
257
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.039
early Jacquevlas type of stuff where it's like we don't
258
00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.279
really know what's going on, but that's okay, live with that.
259
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.159
Just be open to whatever it is and see what happens.
260
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:37.480
Because if we define it, if we tell them what
261
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:43.200
they are before they've even said, Hi, where's the relationship
262
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.960
in that? And I think if something is being communicated
263
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.159
or you know, something along those lines, we've got to
264
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.279
be receptive to it. We can't just block it out
265
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.559
because we're scared or because we like one answer over another.
266
00:14:59.120 --> 00:14:59.799
So how did you.
267
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.440
First realize that it wasn't what our typical thought of
268
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.679
aliens is and that it was just I guess parts
269
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:07.000
of us.
270
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:08.879
It's almost like your higher self or something.
271
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:09.519
That's what you're saying.
272
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.600
Yeah, no, I'm saying there there there are other there
273
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.759
are other beings. I'm just saying they're they're sort of
274
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.840
attached to us, Like, uh, like what are those pairs?
275
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.240
Like you make those paper dolls that you spread out
276
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.799
and they're all sort of you know, attached. It's just
277
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.399
that some of them, are you know, aware enough to
278
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.200
see the entire string of beings that they are and
279
00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.320
and some aren't, And so they look like scary, but
280
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.320
it's really just like it's your own hand doing finger
281
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.159
puppets at you, you know, trying to get you to
282
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.399
wake up to the body. But I would say that,
283
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.399
like in high school, I was fortunate, I guess in
284
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.679
that I came to understand this stuff early on, and
285
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:49.759
so I got out of my system, all of the
286
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:54.639
aliens disclosure movement, all that concrete stuff. I sort of
287
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.200
got out of my system early, so I don't have
288
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.879
to struggle with it now, which is good. I didn't
289
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.679
come to this thing that I'm talking about now until
290
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.799
much later. But I mean, I've sort of always kind
291
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.519
of intuitive. I guess that that it was something bigger.
292
00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.240
I just couldn't put my couldn't couldn't wrap my mind
293
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.159
around what that bigger thing could be because if it's
294
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.200
interconnected with us, but it's not us, but it kind
295
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.039
of is, you know, what is that? And eventually, and
296
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.039
so essentially you've got to like start with you. You've
297
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:28.840
got to start with the basic question what am I?
298
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.679
Who am I? And then work from there. I think
299
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.440
we're working backwards to like thinking we know what we
300
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.320
are now what is that? You know? What does that
301
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.120
advance mean?
302
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.039
So you've experienced these things for a long time, can
303
00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.720
you share with us one particular instance that it happened
304
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:50.679
to you that just completely removed any doubt whatsoever about
305
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:51.480
what these things might be.
306
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.279
What, Yes, I will tell you an experience, and this
307
00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.279
will get to how do you know they're not aliens
308
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:02.240
from another planet? Too? Which is this was in two
309
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.799
thousand and one. I had I'm not going to get
310
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.720
graphic or anything, but I'll just say I was a
311
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.279
virgin at the time, and I had my first love
312
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:17.519
experience visiting and one of the reasons that I was
313
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.519
a virgin well into my twenties was because of this phenomenon.
314
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.759
Like I was afraid because I'd always read afraid of
315
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:25.960
the things that I've read, which are like you can
316
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.000
pass it on to people, you know, and like, what
317
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.680
right do I have to do that to somebody? So
318
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:39.519
but you know, bite the bullet and so yeah, So
319
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.000
that happened, and nothing happened on that first night, so
320
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.079
I breathed a sigh of relief. Night two, however, was
321
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.839
the most like in my face sort of abduction experience
322
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.599
where I woke up in the middle of the night
323
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.880
because there was a bright light coming in through the window.
324
00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.440
She was asleep next to me. She's still asleep. Like
325
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.000
I looked at her, She's asleep, not bothering her. So
326
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:05.920
I sort of crawled over her and peeled back the
327
00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.319
shade and saw that there was just this bright, diffuse
328
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.480
light out in this little alleyway where there shouldn't be anything.
329
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.519
And uh, because there's a building next to the window.
330
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.440
And again I look down at her. She's not moving,
331
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:23.440
so she's fine, what do I care? So I roll
332
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.559
over and when I roll over, there are these three
333
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.319
short beings in beige tunics, which sounds stupid, I know,
334
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.000
standing over me. You know I was gonna ask.
335
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.480
You and you didn't freak out. But now I realize
336
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.880
you didn't beage tunics who fixed out and flowing beage tunics,
337
00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:39.720
I totally makes sense.
338
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:44.400
Well, I actually did freak out like I would fit
339
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.160
that heck out.
340
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.440
Yeah, I mean I did freak out, but I yelled
341
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.720
as loud as I could and nothing came out. So
342
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.799
I'm like, and nothing's coming out, but these beings are
343
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.240
just if they're emoting anything. It's like a childlike naivete,
344
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.359
like come with us. They don't say anything, there's no
345
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.240
psychic anything. They just it just feels like that's what
346
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.240
they're saying. But I'm in freak out animal mode. And
347
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.880
the next thing I know, and there's no transition. But
348
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:14.119
the next thing I know, I'm standing just as in
349
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.680
my underwear as I went to bed, I'm standing in
350
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.240
this nondescript room. That's like and now I must be
351
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:22.720
sedated or something, because I'm not screaming, and I'm just
352
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.279
kind of standing there and it's dark, but there's like
353
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.039
a light source from above, and there are three tables
354
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.079
out ahead of me with naked humans on them. The
355
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.200
one closest is a blonde woman maybe in her fifties,
356
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.799
and the three beings are standing next, you know, in
357
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:41.160
front of her, gesturing like this is what we do
358
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.400
for a living, you know, see. And I'm standing there
359
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.839
and I'm thinking to myself, why am I here seeing this?
360
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.839
And this female voice that I've heard in other contexts,
361
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.920
who I associate with this phenomenon, but I've never seen her?
362
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.559
Says because you've always wanted to remember an abduction and
363
00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:03.640
then we have a long conversation, and that's it. I
364
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.480
get up in the morning and I remember the conversation.
365
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.000
But even though at this point I've like been speaking
366
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.559
about this stuff and writing about this stuff, when it happens,
367
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.680
it's so viscerally terrifying for some reason that you don't
368
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.279
want it to be real, and so I blocked it out.
369
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.480
I don't remember the conversation. I remember remembering the conversation,
370
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.839
but I blocked it out. And then a year later
371
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:33.240
cut to a year later, we had a sub letting roommate.
372
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:35.039
I lived with a bunch of roommates in Queens in
373
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.720
New York, had a sublet come in, so I was
374
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.160
just sort of meeting him for the first time. And
375
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.599
this is where the story gets a little even weirder.
376
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.720
So I'm talking to him the kitchen and my nostril
377
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.599
starts bleeding down my right nose, which causes a flashback
378
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.759
to something that had happened during the night, which was
379
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.480
the other part of this is the Kundalini that you
380
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.440
had introed. The cundalini energy is its own will, and
381
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.880
it moves the body and it does things that look
382
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.480
like tai chi and yoga and stuff like this, but
383
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.559
every now and then it does something pedestrian. And that
384
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.359
night it pinched the bridge of my nose really hard
385
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.240
for no reason. I just let it do it and
386
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.960
then went to sleep. But at some point in the night,
387
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.279
and this is a different bedroom in the same apartment,
388
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.279
I wake up and across from me is a window
389
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.440
in that alleyway where I think bright. I'm awoken by
390
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:29.680
a bright light and I think it's got to be
391
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.400
coming from there. So I'm looking, but it's dark and
392
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:34.559
it doesn't make any sense, and I look over to
393
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.160
my right, and where my wall should be is like
394
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.279
this force field of this white energy or light, and
395
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.400
as I'm looking at it, my nose starts to bleed
396
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.000
down the back of my throat. That's all that was.
397
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:51.039
But when my nose actually bled out in the morning,
398
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.920
I flashed back to that, and because that light was
399
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.160
the same quality of light as a year before, I
400
00:21:57.160 --> 00:21:59.480
immediately made the connection and said, Okay, you can't ignore
401
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.440
this anymore. You've got to deal with this. So what
402
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.079
I want to say about that is, well, one, I
403
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:07.920
think the Kundalini cauterized my nose so I don't bleed
404
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.400
all over the sheets, So there's obviously a connection between
405
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:17.799
that and this, but also you're saying, how do you
406
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.000
know it's not alien from another planet? And my my
407
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.200
sort of quirky quip to that would be what ailing
408
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.359
in the right mind would pour their tax dollars into
409
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:32.880
technology to coming down and punking some dude who's losing
410
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.079
his virginity, who's afraid to lose his virginity and show
411
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.440
up the next night, just as sort of a trickster
412
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.200
kind of thing, just because like, do you put your
413
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.519
tax dollars into that? Do you allow your science to
414
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:45.680
go into that? I don't think you do.
415
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.799
There's so many ways I can go, Like the blood
416
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:53.759
on the table is this?
417
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:54.200
She was?
418
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.160
She like an offering like here, you did that one,
419
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.119
let's do this one too, or something like that.
420
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.119
I really think I really think they were just like
421
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.920
this is what we do, which still doesn't explain anything,
422
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.160
which is a big part of this phenomenon where they
423
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.519
show you things or tell you things that in the
424
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.160
moment look like explanations, and when you think about them
425
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.640
later you're like, that doesn't really cut it.
426
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.279
I think that would have the opposite effect on me.
427
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.200
I think I would be like, oh my gosh, there
428
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.240
are little doctors and they're taking you up and you
429
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.279
know whatever, because they're you know, three little guys and
430
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:24.559
they show up and you're in a room with table
431
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.920
and people on the tables in beage tunics, in beaged tunics.
432
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:30.319
But yeah, that kind of to me is like, oh,
433
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:32.400
I didn't really think about it that way, but I
434
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:34.960
think I would have the opposite effect on me.
435
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:35.799
How did that?
436
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.920
How did you go from that to they're not aliens
437
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.200
taking you and doing probes and all the things that
438
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:43.559
you hear.
439
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.440
Uh. Well, part of it is actually George Hanson, who
440
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.640
is a PSI researcher. He wrote a book called The
441
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.359
Trickster and the Paranormal, and just interviewing him and talking
442
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.960
to him and coming to understand I was hesitant at first,
443
00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:59.960
but then I saw it when I started interviewing people
444
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.559
who are experiencers. You see his tricks, your theory in action.
445
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.920
And basically what he says is like, there are these
446
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.480
types of phenomena. They're cross cultural. They seem to happen
447
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.000
to people in liminal states and in liminal spaces, and
448
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.480
they happen to liminal people and who's more liminal than
449
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:23.839
this guy, right, and so you can pretty much. I mean,
450
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.039
it just doesn't make sense that It's like if I
451
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.319
can interview someone and they can tell me an experience
452
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:29.559
like that, and I can say, Okay, well, what was
453
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.839
going on in your life at the time, and they
454
00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:33.960
tell me while I was going through divorce or I
455
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.079
was moving, or I lost my job, or I was
456
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.880
having sex for the first time or you know, like
457
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.680
these are not coincidences. They are repeated, and I see
458
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.960
it again and again. It's big events like this, and
459
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.759
the paranormal seem to happen around big events in your
460
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:55.960
life that break up your sense of normalcy. And so
461
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.359
that speaks to a deeper interconnection than alien doctors.
462
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.359
All right, So, as of this taping, the government here
463
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.319
in the United States just registered two domains. One is
464
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.599
alien dot gov. The other one is aliens dot gov.
465
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.680
No explanation as to why no disclosure. It was just
466
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.039
found that they had just registered these domains. There's rumors
467
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.519
that there's going to be a July announcement or something
468
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.680
like that that's going to disclose something or another. Steven
469
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.160
Spielberg is about to come out with disclosure. The movie
470
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.079
itself there's a lot of momentum in the direction of
471
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:33.440
its aliens.
472
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:34.519
What do you what do you?
473
00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:38.440
What's your take on this? These websites that they just registered.
474
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:41.200
Are you sure it doesn't have to do with ice
475
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:42.359
and deporting people?
476
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.400
Well, the only reason why I would say because I
477
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.519
thought about that. The only reason I would say not
478
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.839
is because maybe Trump not long ago said we're good
479
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.920
order the Pentagon to disclose everything, to release all these files,
480
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.720
and so it was done apparently by the Pentagon. So
481
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.319
and it's like, there's reasons to believe that it is
482
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.880
more UAP phenomenon that it is one and Peter phenomenon.
483
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.400
Right, Well, I mean the thing is, I mean you're
484
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:14.759
asking you're asking the wrong person, because I'm going to
485
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:19.079
tell you I wouldn't trust anything that came out of them.
486
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:24.039
But also, this, this idea of disclosure happens every few years.
487
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.720
It's coming, it's coming, it's coming, and then you get
488
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.880
the whistleblowers and then nothing, and then they go on
489
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.839
the speaking tours and develop their own speaking companies, and
490
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.599
that seems to be what happens. So I would say
491
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.160
it's it's going to be just more distraction. Spielberg, you know.
492
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:46.119
I mean, okay, he also did War of the Worlds.
493
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:49.720
There wasn't disclosure. Then he did Close Encounters there wasn't disclosure. Then,
494
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.279
I mean, he's a filmmaker. That's it as far as
495
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.039
I can tell. So yeah, I don't I don't really
496
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.559
think anything's going to come of it. If it is,
497
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.440
I mean great, Like if I'm wrong, I don't care,
498
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:03.359
you know what I mean, Like, I don't have a
499
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.119
best interest in this, not being aliens. I'm just telling
500
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.759
you what like makes sense after a lifetime of stuff
501
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.440
to me. But if it turns out I'm wrong, that's
502
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:14.359
not like a big ooh ontological shock. It's like, okay, well,
503
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:16.559
let's feel with it. But is it Why do we
504
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.720
trust the source when when we like, when the government
505
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:23.359
doesn't tell you what you want to hear, it's don't
506
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.480
trust the government. And when they have a whistleblower who's
507
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.400
like shady, it's like, oh, let's put this guy in
508
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.920
a pedestal. So we got to watch again, watch ourselves
509
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.440
and what it is that we want because they're going
510
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.079
to play into that.
511
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.680
Let me discernment, right, I heard all kinds of like51200:27:37.960 --> 00:27:42.160
is a false flag, there's there's apparently some some sort51300:27:42.160 --> 00:27:46.119
of program that they're going to be using holographic technology51400:27:46.160 --> 00:27:50.039
to fake an alien invasion, and they're going to say51500:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.880
all the reasons for anyway. But let's not go there.51600:27:53.559 --> 00:27:57.240
The question that that comes to mind is it still51700:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.880
happening to you now? Are they still coming to you?51800:28:01.559 --> 00:28:06.680
That's an interesting question. Uh, I don't that's the bucks,51900:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.319
That's right. My wife thinks, like, because we live in Hawaii,52000:28:12.359 --> 00:28:18.000
somehow the energies don't react to the same way like52100:28:18.400 --> 00:28:23.599
things happen, but they're more natural related things like Whitley52200:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.759
came and stayed here, Whitley Streamer came and stayed here,52300:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.400
And as we're pulling into the yard for the first time,52400:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.640
like an owl swoops in front of the car. I52500:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.440
mean things like that where you're like, okay, that's classic52600:28:33.440 --> 00:28:38.680
Whitley Streamer, right, But there are no aliens associated with that.52700:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.759
So it's it is as if like the energy or52800:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.839
the intelligence is there, but it wears the mask of52900:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.079
the the culture or the land in which it is,53000:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.880
you know, emanating perhaps. But I would also say, like53100:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.279
for me personally, like I've had a couple of weird53200:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.000
experiences before my wife moved here like we had just53300:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.519
gotten this place. And so in the months before she53400:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.960
moved here from New York, I had weird experiences, and53500:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.119
then when she moved here, nothing about this stuff. Necessarily,53600:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.960
there are some weird things, but nothing hugely dressing, no53700:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.240
no aliens standing over me in other words, right, but53800:29:18.359 --> 00:29:23.960
also my relationship with the Kundalini stuff and whatever I think,53900:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.160
I think I've changed. So I think the relationship has changed,54000:29:28.200 --> 00:29:34.000
like my need to see that has probably changed. And54100:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.960
so they don't come around much anymore. They don't need to.54200:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.400
Well, let's dive into the Cundolini things, because everything you54300:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.799
hear about Kundelini awakening is can be very traumatic. And54400:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.720
yet you seem fine, So.54500:29:51.000 --> 00:29:57.039
I seem fine. Don't we all seem fine? No, Well,54600:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.960
here's the okay, so CUNDLINI and it's I've got the54700:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.640
this book. This is not my book. It is called54800:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.079
I don't know if you can even read that. Maybe54900:30:04.079 --> 00:30:08.799
that's bad television. But The Serpent's Tale Kundolini Yoga and55000:30:08.839 --> 00:30:13.400
the History of an Experience by Sravanna Workataki Varma and55100:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.079
Anya Foxen, And this just came out at the end55200:30:16.119 --> 00:30:18.759
of twenty twenty five right before I released my book,55300:30:19.279 --> 00:30:24.000
and this is a history of kundalini, how sort of55400:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.640
its origins and where it went in the world. And55500:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.960
the thing that I gather from this book is that55600:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.759
there really is no good definition of kundalini. There are55700:30:34.839 --> 00:30:39.160
a bunch of so called symptoms or whatever that people55800:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.240
talk about. But if there is a good single definition55900:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.279
or a good single like what it actually is, it's56000:30:46.359 --> 00:30:50.559
been hidden from us all this time. And obviously people56100:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.680
come along and then they want to sell you something.56200:30:52.880 --> 00:30:58.319
So and especially in America, we're really like, oh, kundalini, yoga, Kundalini,56300:30:58.359 --> 00:31:02.119
breath work, kundalini, know, shock deepot, I can just give56400:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.759
it to you. So there are all these sorts of56500:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.160
things that we think are you know, if I tell56600:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.400
you that you do this this breath stuff and you56700:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.799
have a hallucination because of too much oxygen or lack56800:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.559
of oxygen, whatever it is, or you feel a tingling56900:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.160
in your spine, and you're told to associate that with kundelini,57000:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.240
then you're gonna be like, I have symptoms, I have Kunelini.57100:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.799
But what none of them in this book have gotten57200:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.240
is that the death of self has to occur that57300:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.039
all this stuff that's in this book and all this57400:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.599
stuff that you hear about and see on YouTube, that's57500:31:36.720 --> 00:31:44.680
Kundalini is all thought, is all thought constructs, and there57600:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.799
needs to be a moment of the death of self57700:31:46.839 --> 00:31:51.640
for truth to become one truth. You know, truth as57800:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.359
a first person experience comes through you. And so you57900:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.319
start speaking wisdom and the body has choiceless action, it58000:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.680
starts moving on its own. And I have a feeling58100:32:03.119 --> 00:32:08.319
that what happened is a bunch of ancient people who58200:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.839
cared about this stuff peoply and got it. Did these58300:32:11.880 --> 00:32:16.400
movements jotted down, you know, these things that we now58400:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.920
call yoga or exercises, but are after the fact, before58500:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.480
the fact, they just happened naturally, after the fact. I58600:32:22.599 --> 00:32:25.200
jotted down a system, and now you buy it. Now,58700:32:25.839 --> 00:32:27.599
now you come to me, and I'm your master. You58800:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.519
know what I mean. So that's what I mean. Kundalini58900:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.880
is the will of silence. Silence is what you become59000:32:33.960 --> 00:32:38.000
when you're not there. You know that all sounds like sage.59100:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.599
Really I need a bigger beard to say that, but59200:32:40.880 --> 00:32:43.480
that's kind of what it is. It is. It's you know,59300:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.680
it's a will power of truth that moves the body around,59400:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.960
and so you will get some of these things that59500:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.599
you do see online, psychic awakenings or you know, spontaneous59600:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.839
movements or whatever. I mean. It is spontaneous moving, but59700:32:58.960 --> 00:33:03.000
it's not like what you see, and it's not it's59800:33:03.079 --> 00:33:06.359
not controlled by you. It's not you don't control it59900:33:06.400 --> 00:33:07.400
like an onox.60000:33:07.039 --> 00:33:11.440
Switch's speaking of Kundalini. You actually in silence. You wrote60100:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.240
a book actually that is called Cundlini in the Secrets60200:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.759
of Silence, and you call it a touching and humorous60300:33:18.839 --> 00:33:22.640
memoir where you lift the veil on the misconceived energy,60400:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.359
revealing what it is, what it's doing, and how these60500:33:26.440 --> 00:33:31.440
answers deepen our own human mystery. Jeremy, what is it?60600:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.559
What's it doing? And how do those answers deepen our60700:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.440
own human mystery?60800:33:36.000 --> 00:33:40.799
My god man? What question? Well, so it is as60900:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.960
I've been saying, it's the cundolini is the will of silence,61000:33:44.599 --> 00:33:51.000
which is to say that truth or ultimate intelligence, however61100:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.880
you want to put it, we are in that. We61200:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.440
are in ultimate intelligence. We are consciousness pretending to be61300:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.160
a bunch of stuff or the imagination of man, and61400:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.920
all happening and you can actually and I would say61500:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.199
that what true human nature is is for us to61600:34:08.320 --> 00:34:12.039
be and not assigned to a Jesus, a Buddha or whoever,61700:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.519
to be that first person experience of ultimate intelligence, so61800:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.000
that timeless, formless ultimate intelligence comes into time and form61900:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.639
this way, when you shut up, when you're no more,62000:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.320
when you're dissolved the self, this intelligence speaks and what62100:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.239
does it speak? It speaks truth? And what does it do?62200:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.760
It does Kundalini, you know, it does whatever the most62300:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.159
healthy thing is to do for you and the environment62400:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.760
that you live in. That's basically it. Now, So the62500:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.920
thing that we need to do that Indigenous people don't.62600:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.920
I've had this conversation with Tiokis and Ghost Horse, who's62700:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.760
an elder. I don't know if he wants to be62800:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.559
called an elder, but a Lakota speaker, and I think so,62900:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.800
I think he would agree with this that indigenous pe63000:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.440
at least the Lakota, don't have that sense of eye.63100:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.320
They don't even have eye in the language the way63200:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.119
the English language has possession and I and all this,63300:35:09.840 --> 00:35:11.719
So they don't need to get rid of that sense63400:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.679
of self to come to heart and to realize that63500:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.559
they're part of the web of life, but we as63600:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.840
Western nice people do and so I have found that63700:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.800
the best way to do that, at least for me.63800:35:24.920 --> 00:35:26.960
I mean, I'm sure there are multiple ways to do this,63900:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.960
but is to take any personal issue you have, like64000:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.679
you've got to be honest with yourself and sit alone64100:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.320
with yourself and don't make it a group exercise, but64200:35:36.599 --> 00:35:41.280
just consider why you're a jerk or why you do64300:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.519
the things that you do, whatever it is, and deconstruct them. Oh,64400:35:44.559 --> 00:35:48.599
it's because of this, because I had this experience, Well,64500:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.519
why did that person do that to me? What do64600:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.719
I know about that? What do I know about their parents?64700:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.599
What do I know about me? What do I know?64800:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.000
It always ends up going back to your own parents, right,64900:35:58.360 --> 00:36:02.320
and then you ask like why did my parents do that?65000:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.639
Like what do I know about my grandparents on either65100:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.079
side or my great grandparents? And see how far back65200:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.679
you can go, And if you do enough of this deconstructing,65300:36:11.599 --> 00:36:14.360
you may just come to the moment where not in65400:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.000
an intellectual way like you're going to understand it right now,65500:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.159
but like for yourself deeply in a way that dissolves you. Oh,65600:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.280
there is no end to this like, this is just65700:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.280
what we do to each other, parent to grandparents, go65800:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.760
down the lnerve your ancestry, and then zoom out to65900:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.760
every human being and it's the same. We're all in66000:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.800
this boat together. We're all doing this stuff to each66100:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.559
other because we're confused, we don't have clarity. That's just66200:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.320
what we do. We screw each other up, that's what66300:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.519
we do. And when you get that, when you really66400:36:48.559 --> 00:36:55.719
get that, something breaks and it becomes this blissful nirvonic like, oh,66500:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.719
this is what we are. We're all in this together.66600:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.719
So my problems are not my problems. They're everyone's problems.66700:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.199
We're all doing this and there's something about that that66800:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.079
feels like enlightenment. You can mistake it for enlightenment, but66900:37:09.159 --> 00:37:12.239
it's really just coming to heart from the separative self67000:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.719
the brainiact separative self who's like, no, I'm autonomous, I67100:37:15.800 --> 00:37:21.639
own property or And then so for me, I did67200:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.440
that and I thought, oh, I get it now. But67300:37:24.480 --> 00:37:27.159
then I had a moment where I realized, no, I'm67400:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.880
just the guy who gets it now, right Like I've67500:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.320
still got a self identity. I've just moved the goalpost67600:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.800
to this person who gets it now. And when I67700:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.079
got that, that really broke me. And in that moment67800:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.360
was nothingness, just a blip of nothingness, and through that nothing,67900:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.639
you know, when nothingness was no more and I came back.68000:37:50.320 --> 00:37:54.119
This kud Delini came back with me, and it rose68100:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.079
up the spine, but just the once rose up the68200:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.440
spine and to my head. You can feel it's alpable68300:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.079
and started rotating my head like this like an exercise,68400:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.000
not like the Exorcist. But all I have is the68500:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.800
Exorcist to go by, and so I thought, oh that,68600:38:11.400 --> 00:38:15.440
like what is that? And maybe because of the alien68700:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.159
abduction stuff all my life, I wasn't that scared. I68800:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.239
was more intrigued by it, like maybe I'd had a68900:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.679
lifetime of like being flogged with fear that I'm like, okay,69000:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.599
I'm not gonna I just want to know what this is.69100:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.920
And so I stuck with that and let it unfold69200:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.239
and let it do its thing, because I didn't want69300:38:32.280 --> 00:38:33.800
to get in the way. I felt like at some69400:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.119
point I could be like, oh, now I'm misachic, now69500:38:36.159 --> 00:38:40.159
I'm a healer. I could you know, shut down and69600:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.679
form a new identity. But I really was like really interested,69700:38:43.719 --> 00:38:47.039
like what is this leading to if it's leading to anything,69800:38:48.039 --> 00:38:52.280
And so I just let it play out. And the69900:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.800
thing that it led to that I haven't heard anybody say,70000:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.920
which leads me to believe it's unfortunately rare. But it can't.70100:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.239
I can't be the only one, like that's just not possible.70200:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.960
Is I've only experienced this three times, which is, well,70300:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.800
let me start this. The kundalini if I just shut70400:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.199
up for a second, will come active and do a thing.70500:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.800
This other thing I'm not in control of, which is70600:39:16.199 --> 00:39:20.360
you literally feel it feels like a surgically precise slit70700:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.840
opening in the spine at the base of the spine.70800:39:23.400 --> 00:39:27.239
Oh good god, but well it sounds bad, but it's70900:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.639
it's like numb. It's like if you took a scalpel71000:39:29.719 --> 00:39:31.920
to a numb part of your body that you could71100:39:31.960 --> 00:39:33.599
feel the pressure of it, but not the pain.71200:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.639
It's like that still scalpels gear me.71300:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.280
I got you. The first time I felt that, it71400:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.000
felt like it's like a gill basically, like it's like71500:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.679
we've got a gill in us and this blissful beating71600:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.159
energy came into the body through the slit from head71700:39:53.159 --> 00:39:55.920
to toe. Only my backside, but it felt like I71800:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.360
was not levitating, but it felt like I was levitating71900:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.519
on these beads of just blissful joy for maybe, I72000:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.039
don't know what, fifteen seconds or so, and then it72100:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.199
went back out the slit in the slit zipped back72200:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.440
up or whatever unscalpeled itself, and that was it. The72300:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.679
second time it happened. And now this is going to72400:40:14.679 --> 00:40:20.559
be scary, will so prepare yourself. Oh, this time the72500:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.360
slit opened, the blissful beating energy came in, but then72600:40:23.719 --> 00:40:29.400
some sort of red, demony gargoyle looking thing came in72700:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.719
with it. And I say that because I could see72800:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.679
it superimposed over me. I could see its teeth gnashing,72900:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.679
I could just bizarre and I could feel what it73000:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.760
felt like, and it felt like an immensely ancient not73100:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.920
at all smart, not intellectual at all, but an immensely73200:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.960
ancient being or something from somewhere else. And my fear73300:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.760
in that moment was like, oh, this is where I73400:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.199
had a really bad back at this point in my life.73500:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.519
And my fear was like, if I didn't have that73600:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.599
bad back, is this where I have like temporary insanity73700:40:59.639 --> 00:41:01.239
and I get up and kill my roommates and run73800:41:01.239 --> 00:41:02.800
into the street. And then I have to say, like,73900:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.800
is that what the like? I do have these fears74000:41:06.800 --> 00:41:07.639
in the moment, I'm not.74100:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.519
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no. The fact that74200:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.840
you even went there scares me a little. To be74300:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.760
honest with you, I would have thought. I would have74400:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.599
thought instead, is this the reason why my back hurts?74500:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.159
Because I had this thing in my back? But you74600:41:22.519 --> 00:41:24.079
take it to it. Am I supposed to go kill74700:41:24.119 --> 00:41:24.639
my roommate?74800:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.320
Well? I didn't think. Am I supposed to go kill74900:41:29.360 --> 00:41:33.239
I just thought would go kill them? But it didn't75000:41:33.599 --> 00:41:39.119
as far as we know, so no. But what it75100:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.960
felt like it wanted was just to bask in the75200:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.159
glow of being alive for the few seconds that it75300:41:44.199 --> 00:41:47.559
had and that was it. It did that, and it75400:41:47.639 --> 00:41:49.320
slid out, and the energy slid out and the things75500:41:49.360 --> 00:41:51.760
zipped up. And the third time it happened.75600:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.840
And this was in wait, wait a second, hang on you,75700:41:56.480 --> 00:41:59.480
it went back inside you and you didn't freak out.75800:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.920
What I'm not saying, it's it slip out into the ether,75900:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.800
you know, And oh okay, I didn't slip back inside you?76000:42:07.840 --> 00:42:08.039
Then?76100:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.800
No, no, no, no, And it was just that once76200:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.400
and then the third time energy comes in. Same thing,76300:42:16.559 --> 00:42:19.599
slit opens, energy comes in, it slips out, and I76400:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.119
slip out with it. And in this third time I76500:42:23.199 --> 00:42:27.960
slip out into nothingness, into like complete unconsciousness.76600:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.400
So like an out of body experience.76700:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.199
Well sort of. Well first there's nothingness and it's sort76800:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.719
of out of body, but but not we'll get to that.76900:42:38.800 --> 00:42:44.000
So there's nothingness, and then nothingness becomes conscious and in77000:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.039
that moment of consciousness, I am now aware again. And77100:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.239
what I am seeing and being, there's a sense of77200:42:50.239 --> 00:42:54.760
seeing and being is like a circle of clearness over77300:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.000
black expanding, And it can't be an out of body experience.77400:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.880
It's because I feel it expanding in my brain like77500:43:02.920 --> 00:43:04.760
I feel an elasticity and I feel like it's about77600:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.719
to snap, and I think, oh, I'm about to have77700:43:06.760 --> 00:43:08.960
an aneurysm and die. Like once again, I go to77800:43:09.039 --> 00:43:17.239
the worst case scenario, you just stop that scripts so77900:43:17.480 --> 00:43:20.800
it expands and it finally does snap. I don't die.78000:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.079
It snaps and there is a dot of light and78100:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.639
from that dot of light, the entire universe poofs into existence,78200:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.159
and now it is I am seeing and being each78300:43:32.199 --> 00:43:35.079
individual thing at the same time. So I'm seeing and78400:43:35.159 --> 00:43:38.239
being hot rock jettising through space, and I am that rock,78500:43:38.280 --> 00:43:40.960
and I am that space. I'm seeing and being planets78600:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.960
and suns and all this and I am that. So78700:43:43.639 --> 00:43:47.039
it's this but all at once, like it's incomprehensible in78800:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.960
a way, And the only thing I could even compare78900:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.440
it to is like a fli's eye, which is a79000:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.679
horrible comparison, but it's like a fly's eye is segmented79100:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.199
into a bunch of different eyeballs, all seeing, making one picture.79200:43:59.320 --> 00:44:03.199
But also I would like to think the individual pictures79300:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.480
and the big picture, but apparently they don't have that capacity,79400:44:05.519 --> 00:44:11.039
so it's a bad analogy. But anyway, fly right, So79500:44:11.119 --> 00:44:14.079
that's what it is. That that was. I mean, I'm79600:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.760
trying to I know we're short for time, so I79700:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.440
want to get this in. As you know, it's like79800:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.599
this is the big universal I am experience, and I'm79900:44:22.639 --> 00:44:32.360
just glossing over it for you. But this and I80000:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.039
concentrate on the headache that I had gone to bed80100:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.800
with and sort of pull myself back into normal consciousness80200:44:39.880 --> 00:44:41.639
and I go back into the slit and I can80300:44:41.719 --> 00:44:45.159
see I'm like my sense of perception is going up80400:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.000
into a spot in my head. But as I'm going80500:44:48.039 --> 00:44:50.400
I can see my inwards, I can see like blood80600:44:50.440 --> 00:44:54.159
and bones, and you know, as I'm going up into myself,80700:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.000
and then the slit closes and I jump out of80800:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.119
bed and I pace around like an animal like that80900:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.679
that was that? Was? It? Insane? What we are? Yeah?81000:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.840
And then there's this immediate sense of who do you81100:45:08.840 --> 00:45:10.440
want to be? Do you want to be that guy81200:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.519
or do you want to be normal Jeremy who has81300:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.960
this as a story that you can give to people81400:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.519
and explore and all of that. And for some reason81500:45:19.519 --> 00:45:21.039
I didn't think I could be both, or I didn't81600:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.199
know because who knows what that guy looks like in81700:45:23.199 --> 00:45:27.559
a day to day reality. So I chose to come81800:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.280
back and write about it, and that was probably a mistake.81900:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.079
But here I am, well much of what I'm I'm missaying.82000:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.360
So I think that's what the leading leads to, or82100:45:37.400 --> 00:45:39.119
at least that's one of the things, Like you're asking82200:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.639
what what is it for? What's it about? And I82300:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.840
think that's what we're all supposed to be. Like I82400:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.639
think we chew our way out of the cocoon, and82500:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.840
that's us flying in some way that's universal consciousness. But82600:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.800
instead we just have put HDTVs and computers in our82700:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.320
cocoon and we're like, nah, I'm good, you know.82800:45:56.280 --> 00:46:01.119
I'll just right. So I've got to ask this question82900:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.199
with every due respect. I mean, it just has to83000:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.719
be asked, right. How many drugs did you take before83100:46:08.760 --> 00:46:10.360
this happened?83200:46:12.559 --> 00:46:16.480
No drugs. The only time I ever did drugs was83300:46:16.800 --> 00:46:21.440
after that big eyem experience for Peratopia, the podcast. I83400:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.239
did this much shrooms like to like a hero's dose83500:46:25.280 --> 00:46:28.800
of shrooms to compare it well. For me, I wanted83600:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.079
to compare it to everything that I've experienced. But Jeff83700:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.199
Ritzman and I he was an experiencer too. He has83800:46:33.199 --> 00:46:35.519
passed away, but he was an experiencer, and we had83900:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.800
always heard that people can have abduction experiences on shrooms,84000:46:39.800 --> 00:46:41.800
and I wanted to see what it was, you know,84100:46:42.519 --> 00:46:44.039
So we went in to do it as like a84200:46:44.079 --> 00:46:47.000
sort of an experiment, just like, let's see if we84300:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.920
can conjure an abduction and whatever. And it was not.84400:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.199
I would say it was. To me. It was cartoon town.84500:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.480
It was frustrating, and it was I I can see84600:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.119
why people would think doing hallucinogens is enlightening. It's not.84700:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.039
It's actually I liken it to the difference between laughing84800:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.119
because you understand a good joke and tickle torture. You're84900:47:12.199 --> 00:47:14.880
laughing in both cases, but one is torture and the85000:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.679
other is understanding. And that's the big difference. This is85100:47:17.840 --> 00:47:21.880
like you're inside someone else's imagination, some mushrooms imagination for85200:47:21.880 --> 00:47:23.400
a while. It's like, look at this, look at this,85300:47:23.400 --> 00:47:25.559
look at this, and you're like, I don't want to85400:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.360
look at that. Get me out of here.85500:47:27.880 --> 00:47:31.320
Because because your your experience sounds sounds a lot like85600:47:31.599 --> 00:47:36.480
something that someone on a trip would would experience ayauasca.85700:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.559
Or yeah, the death of the ego and that.85800:47:39.519 --> 00:47:42.880
Right right, the birth of the universe out of the85900:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.679
flash light. All these things are very similar to some86000:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.719
of the people that we've talked about from ayouasca trips.86100:47:47.719 --> 00:47:50.119
But this, this was completely natural then you You didn't86200:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.920
have anything inside you that that that elicited this this experience.86300:47:55.400 --> 00:48:00.559
No, yeah, And to that, I would say, it's interesting,86400:48:00.639 --> 00:48:04.000
isn't it that, Like you go on these big ayahuasca86500:48:04.039 --> 00:48:09.000
journeys and whatever, Eboga and all that, and the first thing,86600:48:10.039 --> 00:48:12.800
these entities or this intelligence or this plant in medicine86700:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.199
or whatever it is, does is try to get you86800:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.920
right with yourself, right, Like that's the first step. We86900:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.039
never want to take that first step, but you'll go87000:48:21.079 --> 00:48:25.320
into the freaking jungles of wherever to have this experience87100:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.840
to be told like by like a plant shrink. Uh,87200:48:29.960 --> 00:48:33.119
you're on the clock here, let's deal with your psychological issues.87300:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.800
So I don't know, I find that kind of funny,87400:48:36.840 --> 00:48:40.519
but I would say, like there is even a difference there,87500:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.960
Like I don't think that gives you this this experience87600:48:44.039 --> 00:48:47.480
necessarily like nothingness. I've seen a bunch of YouTube videos87700:48:47.480 --> 00:48:51.719
where people have done ayahuasca and said that they entered87800:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.480
a state of void and they were depressed about it,87900:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.920
or they were found themselves alone in nothingness and they88000:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.480
felt one way or another about it. Nothingness is nothingness.88100:49:01.480 --> 00:49:04.199
There is no you, There is no void. So what88200:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.760
I would say is that that plant medicine stuff is88300:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.719
it's replicas. It's like a carnival carnival of the mind88400:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.679
kind of thing. And it's not that it's useless or88500:49:15.719 --> 00:49:19.679
not good or whatever, but it's just simply that that88600:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.599
truth in all this stuff that I've been talking about88700:49:23.199 --> 00:49:28.639
is timeless And if you think about nonduality for a second,88800:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.079
like duality is us in time doing things and the88900:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.800
apparentness of everything, and then nonduality is if you step89000:49:34.840 --> 00:49:36.679
out of that and you go, oh wait, there's no89100:49:36.760 --> 00:49:38.760
such thing as time. It's all happening right now. I89200:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.800
can see the entire picture in front of me. How89300:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.079
that picture is alive, is living and wants to expand.89400:49:45.320 --> 00:49:48.679
How does it really expand? It can only expand if89500:49:48.840 --> 00:49:53.679
something from without, from timelessness, enters it. But then that's89600:49:53.760 --> 00:49:55.480
its own death in a way. So it kind of89700:49:55.519 --> 00:49:57.119
wants that a little bit, but it doesn't want it89800:49:57.159 --> 00:49:58.920
a lot a bit. So it'll take someone like me89900:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.199
and I'll have an experience, and then it will incorporate90000:50:03.239 --> 00:50:07.000
that into the circus, right, and it'll create this replica90100:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.559
for people to engage with, so they don't. It's another90200:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.719
sort of challenge to coming out of the cocoon, which90300:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.800
is oh, by the way, the cocoon is alive and90400:50:15.800 --> 00:50:18.280
doesn't want you to really chew through it except sometimes,90500:50:19.000 --> 00:50:23.840
you know what I mean? Is that basically okay?90600:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.599
So then if someone wanted to access your book or90700:50:28.760 --> 00:50:30.800
learn more about you, what's the best way for someone90800:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.239
to do that.90900:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.039
Our undoing dot com is my website and my books91000:50:36.039 --> 00:50:39.000
are available on Amazon and wherever you get books.91100:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.440
Okay, well, we're going to add a direct link to91200:50:41.639 --> 00:50:46.400
your website and place for you to access your books91300:50:46.760 --> 00:50:47.960
on our show notes. So all you need to do91400:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.119
is go to Skeptic Metaphysition dot com and go to91500:50:50.119 --> 00:50:52.679
his episode page. You'll find those links laid in there91600:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.400
so it's easy for you to connect. Jeremy, thank you91700:50:55.440 --> 00:50:59.159
for coming. You've given us quite a lot to think91800:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.920
about it, so I appreciate it. I think I might91900:51:02.960 --> 00:51:05.239
go pick up because I think Whitley just released a92000:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.280
new book that I need to pick up and be92100:51:08.320 --> 00:51:10.320
scared about again, so I'm looking.92200:51:10.079 --> 00:51:10.559
Forward to it.92300:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.440
We're not slipping with the light on.92400:51:13.000 --> 00:51:16.400
Oh okay, I'm not reading the book then, all right. Jeremy,92500:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.000
a pleasure meeting you. Thanks for being on the show.92600:51:18.039 --> 00:51:18.760
Thanks for having me.
