What the Alien Abduction Community Gets Wrong. A Lifelong Experiencer Finally Sets the Record Straight.
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconiHeartRadio podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconOvercast podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon

What if everything the alien abduction community has told you about contact is built on a broken foundation? Jeremy Vaeni has been living with unexplained encounters his entire life, and he's spent decades doing what almost no one in the experiencer community does: questioning the story itself.

In this bonus episode of The Skeptic Metaphysicians, Jeremy breaks down why hypnosis... the tool that built the modern abduction narrative...is a storytelling device, not a memory retrieval tool. He explains why figures like Budd Hopkins actively filtered out experiencer testimony that didn't fit the "alien doctor" script, and why the far stranger, more honest picture looks less like a sci-fi medical drama and more like a lifetime of high strangeness rooted in liminal moments and deep psychological rupture.

But that's only half the conversation. Jeremy has also been living with active kundalini energy for 25 years. Not practicing it. Not chasing it. Living with it the way you live with weather. He argues that kundalini, like the abduction phenomenon, has been completely misrepresented by the communities built around it. What it actually is, he says, is the will of silence. Ultimate intelligence moving through a body that has dissolved its sense of self.

In this episode:

  • Why hypnotic regression produces fantasy, not memory, and what that means for the entire abduction canon
  • The trickster theory of paranormal phenomena and why high strangeness clusters around liminal life events
  • What indigenous frameworks reveal that the Western "alien" construct deliberately erases
  • How Jeremy's own encounters changed after his kundalini activation, and why they eventually stopped
  • The three extraordinary kundalini events that led to a full ego dissolution and a direct experience of universal consciousness
  • Why Jeremy is skeptical of the current wave of government UAP disclosure hype
  • His book, Kundalini and the Secrets of Silence, and the practical path from brain to heart he developed involuntarily over 25 years
Jeremy Vaeni co-hosted the long-running paranormal podcast Paratopia with the late Jeff Ritzmann and has spent his career refusing to let the map replace the territory.

His website is ourundoing.com.
For links to Jeremy's book and website, visit the episode page at skepticmetaphysician.com.

_____________________________________________
Free gift: My Life After Death: A Memoir from Heaven
Want to know what the afterlife actually looks like? Dr. Elisa Medhus's son Erik wrote a book about it...from the other side. A book channeled from the other side that readers call the most convincing account of the afterlife ever written. Grab your free digital copy at:
skepticmetaphysician.com/newsletter



The Skeptic Metaphysicians is a spiritual awakening podcast for open-minded thinkers who refuse to check their critical thinking at the door. Each episode explores consciousness expansion, enlightenment, soul purpose, and soul growth through honest, grounded conversation with leading voices in metaphysics, psychic phenomenon, quantum healing, and beyond.

We dive deep into spiritual awakening, ascension, alignment, and the awakening process without the dogma. From mediumship and spirit guides to Arcturian contact, astrology, and the subconscious mind, we explore it all with curiosity, humor, and zero guru worship.

Whether you're in the middle of your own awakening, questioning reality, or just spiritually curious, this is the podcast for seekers and skeptics alike.

Subscribe, Rate & Review!
If you found this episode enlightening, mind-expanding, or even just thought-provoking (see what we did there?), please take a moment to rate and review us. Your feedback helps us bring more transformative guests and topics your way!

Connect with Us:
🌎 Website – SkepticMetaphysician.com
📱 Follow Us on Social Media – https://www.facebook.com/SkepticMetaphysician |
WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:04.000
Karen, Yes, and he needed to hold onto that chair.

2
00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:04.440
For a second.

3
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:07.919
Okay, now what see, I.

4
00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:11.439
Just want to prepare you arms, I know, but it doesn't.

5
00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:15.080
So today's guest is not a researcher who studies alien abductions.

6
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:19.359
He's someone who's it's actually been happening to his entire life,

7
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:24.559
and he's spent decades questioning everything that the mainstream abduction

8
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.519
community has told him about his own experience.

9
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:29.559
I didn't know there was a mainstream.

10
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:34.640
Abduction community getting you're getting quite the educationion today.

11
00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:35.000
Now.

12
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:37.679
He's also been living with active Kundlini energy for twenty

13
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.679
five years, not practicing, not pursuing it, living with it

14
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:43.600
the way you live with weather. He argues that the

15
00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.560
two of the most talked about phenomenon in the spiritual

16
00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:50.640
and paranormal world, alien abduction and Cundellini, are both wildly

17
00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.880
misrepresented by the very communities built around them. And he's

18
00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.880
going to tell us exactly why he can actually teach

19
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:01.560
us something that theory a practical path from brain to

20
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.959
heart to ego disillusion, drawn from twenty five years of

21
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:08.879
doing it involuntarily. And he lives in Hawaii and raises ducks,

22
00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.159
which somehow makes all this more credible, not less. That

23
00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.239
broke my brain a little bit. Oh no, it didn't hurt.

24
00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.000
It's like a roommate who rearranges your furniture and occasionally

25
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.799
dissolves your ego. So, if you've ever had something happen

26
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.079
to you that you couldn't explain, somebody that didn't fit

27
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.280
any of the categories the Internet gave to you, this

28
00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.920
is the episode where someone finally stopped pretending the map

29
00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:33.120
and the territory are the same thing. Welcome to the

30
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.920
Skeptic Benephysicians. My name is Will, and I'm garious, and

31
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:39.760
unlike moulderin Scully.

32
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:40.359
Both want to believe.

33
00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:42.359
So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.

34
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.040
We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and

35
00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:45.920
my physical world.

36
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.239
We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even

37
00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:49.959
joined a coven, of.

38
00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.480
Which and wait, you joined a coven?

39
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.959
Yep, All the interests of finding something, anything that will

40
00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.400
prove that there's something beyond this physical.

41
00:01:58.120 --> 00:01:59.719
Three dimensional world we all live in.

42
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:14.639
Is the skeptic metapositions. Hey there, I Will, and I'm

43
00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.759
welcome back to the skeptic Metapositions, the show where the

44
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.400
weird thing that happened to you finally get to see

45
00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.840
at the grown up table. You're reading my aim. You

46
00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:24.360
can't read my script. You gotta let me tell you

47
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.000
what I'm saying. You laughed before I said it. I

48
00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:28.400
saw you.

49
00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:31.360
It's because I'm becoming very psychic. Oh, I knew what.

50
00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:33.919
You're all right? Well, I am thrilled to welcome Jeremy

51
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.159
Vaney to the show. Jeremy, how you doing today?

52
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.000
Great? Thanks for having me.

53
00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.639
Oh, it's a pleasure to have you. We I gotta

54
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.319
I gotta wrap the bat admit something to you because

55
00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.159
it might taint our conversation. Oh, okay, alien abductions is

56
00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.800
my number one fear in the world. So I'm hoping

57
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.520
that you're going to put those fears to rest. When

58
00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.319
you talk about alien abductions and saying that to not

59
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.520
aliens and they're non abductions, What the heck are we

60
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:04.039
talking about?

61
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.960
Then well, it's actually easier to say what we're what

62
00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.319
we're not talking about. What we are talking about. I mean,

63
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.599
I think we are talking about another intelligence. I think

64
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.520
it is not from within the universe, but I think

65
00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.719
it is deeply connected to us. But the idea that

66
00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.039
we are being abducted or that they're aliens you know,

67
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.759
from another planet, or alien doctors even from another dimension,

68
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:32.400
just sort of moving the goalpost but telling the same

69
00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:37.960
story like that is that comes from hypnotic literature, you know,

70
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.360
putting people under hypnosis co creating a story. Hypnosis is

71
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.479
a terrible memory retrieval tool, but a great storytelling tool

72
00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:48.840
and a great way to make up a fantasy by

73
00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:52.080
accident and not know it. So after decades of that,

74
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.240
that's the cottage industry. They you know, came out with

75
00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.680
sort of a cookie cutter alien abduction scenario of again

76
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.879
doctor kind of like us, but gray or some other

77
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:06.439
thing or reptile or whatever doing things that we can

78
00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:11.080
understand with rudimentary implements, creating hybrids and so on and

79
00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.439
so forth. You in all the stories. But if you

80
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.040
take away hypnosis and you actually just speak with experiencers,

81
00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:20.680
you get not the cookie cutter thing, but you get

82
00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.720
something and I'm not saying we're shamans at all, but

83
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.720
something more akin to that where shamanism, where it's like

84
00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:33.240
a lifetime of all sorts of paranormal phenomena that even

85
00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.800
in talking about it, we used to at least used

86
00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.279
to I don't know if we still do, but tended

87
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.959
to self edit because how much is too much before

88
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.160
it becomes too incredible to believe? Like aliens are incredible enough,

89
00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.040
but now add like ghosts and psychic stuff and whatever.

90
00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:52.920
But that's it. It's a lifetime of high strangeness, you know.

91
00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.279
So I think that's where the term took a turn

92
00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:01.319
from alien abductee to experience or of high strangeness. And ultimately,

93
00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.920
I think the thing that's kind of hard to wrap

94
00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:08.879
your head around is what is it doing? What are

95
00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.439
they doing? What is actually going on? If if that's

96
00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:14.360
not it, and.

97
00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.879
Well, let's take a step further back, like if they're

98
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.439
not aliens, what are they?

99
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:26.439
I don't know for sure, but I think that they are.

100
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.560
That they are interdimensional but connected to us. So if

101
00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:33.920
you think about that, there are only a certain amount

102
00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.600
of dimensions that we can comprehend, but we're actually more

103
00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:38.759
dimensional than that. You know, string theory has us I

104
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.800
think at nine dimensions or something like that. That what

105
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.920
if there are beings that are you know, essentially that

106
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.199
we're not autonomous, that there are other beings and we're

107
00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.720
all inter we all have little loops of interconnected people

108
00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.759
that we are and some and we don't know it

109
00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.959
right because we can only see whatever it is three demens.

110
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.000
But they can see more, you know, and maybe you know,

111
00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:05.759
if we wake up to our wholeness, we can see

112
00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.120
more too, and we can know them more as equals

113
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.800
than as some fearful thing that seems to come through

114
00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:15.759
into our lives the more we perceive them. There's this

115
00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.920
notion that you need to perceive them to be here,

116
00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.480
and I think that that is kind of true. So

117
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.600
you were saying that you were fearful of it, and

118
00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.720
I would say that what's interesting is there seems to

119
00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:31.720
be a hook that probably everybody gets a fishing line

120
00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.680
thrown at them in early childhood of a weird experience

121
00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.399
that you either end up contemplating until you end up

122
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.720
in a feedback loop with this intelligence for your life,

123
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.600
or your parents tell you it was a dream, you're

124
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.240
imagining things or whatever, and you believe that, and then

125
00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.759
that sort of cuts it off. So it's a perceptual

126
00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.000
thing in that sense, and not something coming down from

127
00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.879
another planet. And if that connection isn't made in childhood,

128
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.240
will you might get your wish, you may never be

129
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:04.319
abducted by it.

130
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.360
I don't want to I want to be abducted. I

131
00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:08.800
do want to see I do want to see a ship,

132
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:09.879
but I want to see an alien.

133
00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.439
That's the thing. Well, we've had so many different conversations

134
00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.879
and some people hint a very different picture of experiences

135
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:24.199
with extraterrestrial aliens or beings from different I don't know, plants, universessions, dimensions.

136
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.000
How do you know that they're not aliens?

137
00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.639
I'm going to take this from a different angle, which

138
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.519
is because a lot it's been said from like the

139
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.120
normal angle of like, well, then why are they using

140
00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.319
you know, they're they're so advanced that they come here

141
00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:45.439
to use rudimentary implementation to do things that we understand

142
00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.279
like no, but step back from all that and just

143
00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:52.519
look at the word alien. I mean this may seem

144
00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.360
kind of like you know what is, but just think

145
00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.519
about this. Alien is a Western construct. Like if you

146
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:04.439
go to pretty much any indigenous peoples around the world,

147
00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.439
they speak in terms of relations and relatives, right, and

148
00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:13.959
that's not some small thing that's natural. So westerniz's mind

149
00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:18.439
is a separative, divorced mind, divorce from interconnectivity with you know,

150
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.560
with Earth, even with very place that we live. We

151
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.879
like to say we live on earth, not with Earth.

152
00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:26.360
You know. We like to say that we own things,

153
00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.759
not that we're enmeshed in them, and that we're part of,

154
00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:32.559
you know, a web of life. But if that's actually natural,

155
00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:37.000
wouldn't advanced beings be of that mind? Would they come

156
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:42.200
here and do awful alien things? You know? Or is

157
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.320
that perception? Is that just how we perceive them because

158
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.360
in our society and in our culture, we've we've set

159
00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.639
up in us in them, and so they are either

160
00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.799
friend or foe, and if we don't know anything about them,

161
00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:55.240
we get scared. You know.

162
00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:01.720
Well, my fear comes from Whitley Striever's book. I read

163
00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.480
the book when I was in college, and I it

164
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:06.679
freaked me out so badly that my roommate to this

165
00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:08.879
day is mad at me for keeping the lights on

166
00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.399
in that room for two weeks because I couldn't sleep

167
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.360
the other light up with the light on. Because in

168
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:19.120
the book, again you mentioned hypnosis not being a reliable tool,

169
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.360
and yet he did undergo hypnosis where a lot of

170
00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.080
these things came out, and he did find like implants

171
00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.360
and things like that that he remembered or made up

172
00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.639
in his hypnosis sessions. But I would find it hard

173
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.720
to believe that he would have made something up that

174
00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:39.320
actually was found in him if it wasn't a memory.

175
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.000
Well, now, the point is that, for instance, you have

176
00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.960
missing time. So if you if you know, there have

177
00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.960
been plenty of hypnosis studies done that that show that

178
00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:57.000
you fill in gaps with fantasy. Now add missing time

179
00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:01.320
from an unknown from a mystery called aliens. You really

180
00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.000
can't know what that is, you know what I mean?

181
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.320
And so what are you filling in? It's not that

182
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.159
he's not having experiences with this intelligence. It's not that

183
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.759
they maybe didn't even put an implant of some sort

184
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.679
in him. It's that all that unaccounted for stuff that

185
00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:17.200
you're going in to try to flesh out. That's like

186
00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.840
amnesia is well, I'm trying to think. We had a

187
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.919
psychologist tell us once on Peratopia Jeffritzman and I used

188
00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:27.679
to host a show called Perotopia, and he said, it's

189
00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.320
no better or worse than getting someone drunk and trying

190
00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.120
to ask them to tell you the truth. You know,

191
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.120
But Whitley's book, So now I'm friends with Whitley, and

192
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.039
I've spoken to Whitley about all this stuff, and what

193
00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.960
he would tell you is that hypnosis now is bad

194
00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.039
because we all know what the story is and because

195
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.000
the hypnotists are junk, but that back then it was

196
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.399
new and he used the top of the line, you know, police,

197
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.720
forensic whatever, hypnotist and all of that, and so you know,

198
00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.639
you can take that however you want to take that.

199
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.679
I would just say it's unfortunate, but we have to

200
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.720
throw all hypnosis out as testimony to the truth. But

201
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.759
that doesn't diminish his story at all, because he's got

202
00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.080
plenty of stuff that wasn't recovered through hypnosis. And as

203
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.879
an experiencer as in high school when I read this book,

204
00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.080
when I read Communion, it scared me too, but it

205
00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.200
also was enlightening because it was different because it did

206
00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:30.759
say he remain open to the question. Don't just say

207
00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:34.039
it's aliens. You know, he calls them visitors, and you know,

208
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.519
as you know you've read the book, he goes through

209
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.320
a bunch of different sort of possibilities of what it

210
00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.840
could be. And I found that more enlightening, I think

211
00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:46.879
than any of their alien doctors doing doctors things so

212
00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:47.799
I would.

213
00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:50.120
Think, and I think, I get you're saying that the

214
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:57.360
shamanic definition or I don't know how indigenous people's talk

215
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:03.559
about these visitors. It's more akin to family, like ancient

216
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.320
ones and things like that, which I understand that they're

217
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.039
almost like you're making a connection between maybe a long

218
00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.120
lost lineage of ours or something like that from a

219
00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.799
different dimension, or maybe in the future or something like that,

220
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.440
who knows. But then my question then lies in the

221
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.279
fact that if this is truly not an alien abduction,

222
00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:29.080
what do they want and why are they doing it

223
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.840
in a way that's it's scaring the heck out of us.

224
00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:34.519
Well, this is why I think they're interconnected with us,

225
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.200
because I think it is one waking oneself up. You know,

226
00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.720
we appear as two or three or four, but it's

227
00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:44.679
really one waking oneself up. But you can't just do

228
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.360
that by having a sit down conversation. So I think,

229
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:53.879
you know, the abduction phenomenon has been compared to well,

230
00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.200
it's been compared to shamanic stuff. It's also been just

231
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.919
compared to modern myth making a modern path of way

232
00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.279
up or something like that. And I would say that

233
00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.120
it sort of is, but it's only because though it's

234
00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.120
using the languages that we speak that best foster that

235
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:16.360
in us. But the problem is that we want to

236
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.080
define everything and we want to know right. We don't

237
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.519
like to live in the question, as Whitley suggested, we do,

238
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.200
and so it's easy to jump to whatever the consensus

239
00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.440
thing is, like, oh this is aliens, Oh this is whatever.

240
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:30.440
But I mean I've seen in fact, you know, I

241
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.679
talked to Bud Hopkins, who used to be the biggest

242
00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.879
proponent of little alien doctors. He wrote the book Missing Time,

243
00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:39.440
he wrote the book Intruders, and he admitted to me

244
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.720
that he edits or he's dead now, but when he

245
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.919
was live, he would he had outliers. So he had

246
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.440
a story in mind that appealed to him, which was

247
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.000
alien doctors, and he would not take the testimony of

248
00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:59.320
anything else to present that story. I mean, so that's

249
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.639
what that is. And I would just say, like, I mean,

250
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.279
maybe it's a different perspective as an experiencer than someone

251
00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.600
who's looking at it from the outside, because I really

252
00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.720
want to know what's going on, you know what I mean, Like,

253
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.519
I don't want to attach myself to anything because none

254
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.440
of them ring true. Let's put it that way too,

255
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.759
Like none of that stuff rings true. The stuff that

256
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.960
rings true is like live in the question Jacques Vlai

257
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.039
early Jacquevlas type of stuff where it's like we don't

258
00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.279
really know what's going on, but that's okay, live with that.

259
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.159
Just be open to whatever it is and see what happens.

260
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:37.480
Because if we define it, if we tell them what

261
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:43.200
they are before they've even said, Hi, where's the relationship

262
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.960
in that? And I think if something is being communicated

263
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.159
or you know, something along those lines, we've got to

264
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.279
be receptive to it. We can't just block it out

265
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.559
because we're scared or because we like one answer over another.

266
00:14:59.120 --> 00:14:59.799
So how did you.

267
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.440
First realize that it wasn't what our typical thought of

268
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.679
aliens is and that it was just I guess parts

269
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:07.000
of us.

270
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:08.879
It's almost like your higher self or something.

271
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:09.519
That's what you're saying.

272
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.600
Yeah, no, I'm saying there there there are other there

273
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.759
are other beings. I'm just saying they're they're sort of

274
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.840
attached to us, Like, uh, like what are those pairs?

275
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.240
Like you make those paper dolls that you spread out

276
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.799
and they're all sort of you know, attached. It's just

277
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.399
that some of them, are you know, aware enough to

278
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.200
see the entire string of beings that they are and

279
00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.320
and some aren't, And so they look like scary, but

280
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.320
it's really just like it's your own hand doing finger

281
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.159
puppets at you, you know, trying to get you to

282
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.399
wake up to the body. But I would say that,

283
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.399
like in high school, I was fortunate, I guess in

284
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.679
that I came to understand this stuff early on, and

285
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:49.759
so I got out of my system, all of the

286
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:54.639
aliens disclosure movement, all that concrete stuff. I sort of

287
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.200
got out of my system early, so I don't have

288
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.879
to struggle with it now, which is good. I didn't

289
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.679
come to this thing that I'm talking about now until

290
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.799
much later. But I mean, I've sort of always kind

291
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.519
of intuitive. I guess that that it was something bigger.

292
00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.240
I just couldn't put my couldn't couldn't wrap my mind

293
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.159
around what that bigger thing could be because if it's

294
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.200
interconnected with us, but it's not us, but it kind

295
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.039
of is, you know, what is that? And eventually, and

296
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.039
so essentially you've got to like start with you. You've

297
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:28.840
got to start with the basic question what am I?

298
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.679
Who am I? And then work from there. I think

299
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.440
we're working backwards to like thinking we know what we

300
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.320
are now what is that? You know? What does that

301
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.120
advance mean?

302
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.039
So you've experienced these things for a long time, can

303
00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.720
you share with us one particular instance that it happened

304
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:50.679
to you that just completely removed any doubt whatsoever about

305
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:51.480
what these things might be.

306
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.279
What, Yes, I will tell you an experience, and this

307
00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.279
will get to how do you know they're not aliens

308
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:02.240
from another planet? Too? Which is this was in two

309
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.799
thousand and one. I had I'm not going to get

310
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.720
graphic or anything, but I'll just say I was a

311
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.279
virgin at the time, and I had my first love

312
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:17.519
experience visiting and one of the reasons that I was

313
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.519
a virgin well into my twenties was because of this phenomenon.

314
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.759
Like I was afraid because I'd always read afraid of

315
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:25.960
the things that I've read, which are like you can

316
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.000
pass it on to people, you know, and like, what

317
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.680
right do I have to do that to somebody? So

318
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:39.519
but you know, bite the bullet and so yeah, So

319
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.000
that happened, and nothing happened on that first night, so

320
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.079
I breathed a sigh of relief. Night two, however, was

321
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.839
the most like in my face sort of abduction experience

322
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.599
where I woke up in the middle of the night

323
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.880
because there was a bright light coming in through the window.

324
00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.440
She was asleep next to me. She's still asleep. Like

325
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.000
I looked at her, She's asleep, not bothering her. So

326
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:05.920
I sort of crawled over her and peeled back the

327
00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.319
shade and saw that there was just this bright, diffuse

328
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.480
light out in this little alleyway where there shouldn't be anything.

329
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.519
And uh, because there's a building next to the window.

330
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.440
And again I look down at her. She's not moving,

331
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:23.440
so she's fine, what do I care? So I roll

332
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.559
over and when I roll over, there are these three

333
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.319
short beings in beige tunics, which sounds stupid, I know,

334
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.000
standing over me. You know I was gonna ask.

335
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.480
You and you didn't freak out. But now I realize

336
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.880
you didn't beage tunics who fixed out and flowing beage tunics,

337
00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:39.720
I totally makes sense.

338
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:44.400
Well, I actually did freak out like I would fit

339
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.160
that heck out.

340
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.440
Yeah, I mean I did freak out, but I yelled

341
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.720
as loud as I could and nothing came out. So

342
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.799
I'm like, and nothing's coming out, but these beings are

343
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.240
just if they're emoting anything. It's like a childlike naivete,

344
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.359
like come with us. They don't say anything, there's no

345
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.240
psychic anything. They just it just feels like that's what

346
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.240
they're saying. But I'm in freak out animal mode. And

347
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.880
the next thing I know, and there's no transition. But

348
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:14.119
the next thing I know, I'm standing just as in

349
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.680
my underwear as I went to bed, I'm standing in

350
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.240
this nondescript room. That's like and now I must be

351
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:22.720
sedated or something, because I'm not screaming, and I'm just

352
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.279
kind of standing there and it's dark, but there's like

353
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.039
a light source from above, and there are three tables

354
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.079
out ahead of me with naked humans on them. The

355
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.200
one closest is a blonde woman maybe in her fifties,

356
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.799
and the three beings are standing next, you know, in

357
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:41.160
front of her, gesturing like this is what we do

358
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.400
for a living, you know, see. And I'm standing there

359
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.839
and I'm thinking to myself, why am I here seeing this?

360
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.839
And this female voice that I've heard in other contexts,

361
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.920
who I associate with this phenomenon, but I've never seen her?

362
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.559
Says because you've always wanted to remember an abduction and

363
00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:03.640
then we have a long conversation, and that's it. I

364
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.480
get up in the morning and I remember the conversation.

365
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.000
But even though at this point I've like been speaking

366
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.559
about this stuff and writing about this stuff, when it happens,

367
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.680
it's so viscerally terrifying for some reason that you don't

368
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.279
want it to be real, and so I blocked it out.

369
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.480
I don't remember the conversation. I remember remembering the conversation,

370
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.839
but I blocked it out. And then a year later

371
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:33.240
cut to a year later, we had a sub letting roommate.

372
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:35.039
I lived with a bunch of roommates in Queens in

373
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.720
New York, had a sublet come in, so I was

374
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.160
just sort of meeting him for the first time. And

375
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.599
this is where the story gets a little even weirder.

376
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.720
So I'm talking to him the kitchen and my nostril

377
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.599
starts bleeding down my right nose, which causes a flashback

378
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.759
to something that had happened during the night, which was

379
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.480
the other part of this is the Kundalini that you

380
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.440
had introed. The cundalini energy is its own will, and

381
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.880
it moves the body and it does things that look

382
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.480
like tai chi and yoga and stuff like this, but

383
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.559
every now and then it does something pedestrian. And that

384
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.359
night it pinched the bridge of my nose really hard

385
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.240
for no reason. I just let it do it and

386
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.960
then went to sleep. But at some point in the night,

387
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.279
and this is a different bedroom in the same apartment,

388
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.279
I wake up and across from me is a window

389
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.440
in that alleyway where I think bright. I'm awoken by

390
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:29.680
a bright light and I think it's got to be

391
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.400
coming from there. So I'm looking, but it's dark and

392
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:34.559
it doesn't make any sense, and I look over to

393
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.160
my right, and where my wall should be is like

394
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.279
this force field of this white energy or light, and

395
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.400
as I'm looking at it, my nose starts to bleed

396
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.000
down the back of my throat. That's all that was.

397
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:51.039
But when my nose actually bled out in the morning,

398
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.920
I flashed back to that, and because that light was

399
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.160
the same quality of light as a year before, I

400
00:21:57.160 --> 00:21:59.480
immediately made the connection and said, Okay, you can't ignore

401
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.440
this anymore. You've got to deal with this. So what

402
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.079
I want to say about that is, well, one, I

403
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:07.920
think the Kundalini cauterized my nose so I don't bleed

404
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.400
all over the sheets, So there's obviously a connection between

405
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:17.799
that and this, but also you're saying, how do you

406
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.000
know it's not alien from another planet? And my my

407
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.200
sort of quirky quip to that would be what ailing

408
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.359
in the right mind would pour their tax dollars into

409
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:32.880
technology to coming down and punking some dude who's losing

410
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.079
his virginity, who's afraid to lose his virginity and show

411
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.440
up the next night, just as sort of a trickster

412
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.200
kind of thing, just because like, do you put your

413
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.519
tax dollars into that? Do you allow your science to

414
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:45.680
go into that? I don't think you do.

415
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.799
There's so many ways I can go, Like the blood

416
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:53.759
on the table is this?

417
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:54.200
She was?

418
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.160
She like an offering like here, you did that one,

419
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.119
let's do this one too, or something like that.

420
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.119
I really think I really think they were just like

421
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.920
this is what we do, which still doesn't explain anything,

422
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.160
which is a big part of this phenomenon where they

423
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.519
show you things or tell you things that in the

424
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.160
moment look like explanations, and when you think about them

425
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.640
later you're like, that doesn't really cut it.

426
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.279
I think that would have the opposite effect on me.

427
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.200
I think I would be like, oh my gosh, there

428
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.240
are little doctors and they're taking you up and you

429
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.279
know whatever, because they're you know, three little guys and

430
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:24.559
they show up and you're in a room with table

431
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.920
and people on the tables in beage tunics, in beaged tunics.

432
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:30.319
But yeah, that kind of to me is like, oh,

433
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:32.400
I didn't really think about it that way, but I

434
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:34.960
think I would have the opposite effect on me.

435
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:35.799
How did that?

436
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.920
How did you go from that to they're not aliens

437
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.200
taking you and doing probes and all the things that

438
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:43.559
you hear.

439
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.440
Uh. Well, part of it is actually George Hanson, who

440
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.640
is a PSI researcher. He wrote a book called The

441
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.359
Trickster and the Paranormal, and just interviewing him and talking

442
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.960
to him and coming to understand I was hesitant at first,

443
00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:59.960
but then I saw it when I started interviewing people

444
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.559
who are experiencers. You see his tricks, your theory in action.

445
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.920
And basically what he says is like, there are these

446
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.480
types of phenomena. They're cross cultural. They seem to happen

447
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.000
to people in liminal states and in liminal spaces, and

448
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.480
they happen to liminal people and who's more liminal than

449
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:23.839
this guy, right, and so you can pretty much. I mean,

450
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.039
it just doesn't make sense that It's like if I

451
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.319
can interview someone and they can tell me an experience

452
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:29.559
like that, and I can say, Okay, well, what was

453
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.839
going on in your life at the time, and they

454
00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:33.960
tell me while I was going through divorce or I

455
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.079
was moving, or I lost my job, or I was

456
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.880
having sex for the first time or you know, like

457
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.680
these are not coincidences. They are repeated, and I see

458
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.960
it again and again. It's big events like this, and

459
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.759
the paranormal seem to happen around big events in your

460
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:55.960
life that break up your sense of normalcy. And so

461
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.359
that speaks to a deeper interconnection than alien doctors.

462
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.359
All right, So, as of this taping, the government here

463
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.319
in the United States just registered two domains. One is

464
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.599
alien dot gov. The other one is aliens dot gov.

465
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.680
No explanation as to why no disclosure. It was just

466
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.039
found that they had just registered these domains. There's rumors

467
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.519
that there's going to be a July announcement or something

468
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.680
like that that's going to disclose something or another. Steven

469
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.160
Spielberg is about to come out with disclosure. The movie

470
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.079
itself there's a lot of momentum in the direction of

471
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:33.440
its aliens.

472
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:34.519
What do you what do you?

473
00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:38.440
What's your take on this? These websites that they just registered.

474
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:41.200
Are you sure it doesn't have to do with ice

475
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:42.359
and deporting people?

476
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.400
Well, the only reason why I would say because I

477
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.519
thought about that. The only reason I would say not

478
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.839
is because maybe Trump not long ago said we're good

479
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.920
order the Pentagon to disclose everything, to release all these files,

480
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.720
and so it was done apparently by the Pentagon. So

481
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.319
and it's like, there's reasons to believe that it is

482
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.880
more UAP phenomenon that it is one and Peter phenomenon.

483
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.400
Right, Well, I mean the thing is, I mean you're

484
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:14.759
asking you're asking the wrong person, because I'm going to

485
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:19.079
tell you I wouldn't trust anything that came out of them.

486
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:24.039
But also, this, this idea of disclosure happens every few years.

487
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.720
It's coming, it's coming, it's coming, and then you get

488
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.880
the whistleblowers and then nothing, and then they go on

489
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.839
the speaking tours and develop their own speaking companies, and

490
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.599
that seems to be what happens. So I would say

491
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.160
it's it's going to be just more distraction. Spielberg, you know.

492
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:46.119
I mean, okay, he also did War of the Worlds.

493
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:49.720
There wasn't disclosure. Then he did Close Encounters there wasn't disclosure. Then,

494
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.279
I mean, he's a filmmaker. That's it as far as

495
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.039
I can tell. So yeah, I don't I don't really

496
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.559
think anything's going to come of it. If it is,

497
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.440
I mean great, Like if I'm wrong, I don't care,

498
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:03.359
you know what I mean, Like, I don't have a

499
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.119
best interest in this, not being aliens. I'm just telling

500
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.759
you what like makes sense after a lifetime of stuff

501
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.440
to me. But if it turns out I'm wrong, that's

502
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:14.359
not like a big ooh ontological shock. It's like, okay, well,

503
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:16.559
let's feel with it. But is it Why do we

504
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.720
trust the source when when we like, when the government

505
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:23.359
doesn't tell you what you want to hear, it's don't

506
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.480
trust the government. And when they have a whistleblower who's

507
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.400
like shady, it's like, oh, let's put this guy in

508
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.920
a pedestal. So we got to watch again, watch ourselves

509
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.440
and what it is that we want because they're going

510
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.079
to play into that.

511
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.680
Let me discernment, right, I heard all kinds of like

512
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:42.160
is a false flag, there's there's apparently some some sort

513
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:46.119
of program that they're going to be using holographic technology

514
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:50.039
to fake an alien invasion, and they're going to say

515
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.880
all the reasons for anyway. But let's not go there.

516
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:57.240
The question that that comes to mind is it still

517
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.880
happening to you now? Are they still coming to you?

518
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:06.680
That's an interesting question. Uh, I don't that's the bucks,

519
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.319
That's right. My wife thinks, like, because we live in Hawaii,

520
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:18.000
somehow the energies don't react to the same way like

521
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:23.599
things happen, but they're more natural related things like Whitley

522
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.759
came and stayed here, Whitley Streamer came and stayed here,

523
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.400
And as we're pulling into the yard for the first time,

524
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.640
like an owl swoops in front of the car. I

525
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.440
mean things like that where you're like, okay, that's classic

526
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:38.680
Whitley Streamer, right, But there are no aliens associated with that.

527
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.759
So it's it is as if like the energy or

528
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.839
the intelligence is there, but it wears the mask of

529
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.079
the the culture or the land in which it is,

530
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.880
you know, emanating perhaps. But I would also say, like

531
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.279
for me personally, like I've had a couple of weird

532
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.000
experiences before my wife moved here like we had just

533
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.519
gotten this place. And so in the months before she

534
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.960
moved here from New York, I had weird experiences, and

535
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.119
then when she moved here, nothing about this stuff. Necessarily,

536
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.960
there are some weird things, but nothing hugely dressing, no

537
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.240
no aliens standing over me in other words, right, but

538
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:23.960
also my relationship with the Kundalini stuff and whatever I think,

539
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.160
I think I've changed. So I think the relationship has changed,

540
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:34.000
like my need to see that has probably changed. And

541
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.960
so they don't come around much anymore. They don't need to.

542
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.400
Well, let's dive into the Cundolini things, because everything you

543
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.799
hear about Kundelini awakening is can be very traumatic. And

544
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.720
yet you seem fine, So.

545
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:57.039
I seem fine. Don't we all seem fine? No, Well,

546
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.960
here's the okay, so CUNDLINI and it's I've got the

547
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.640
this book. This is not my book. It is called

548
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.079
I don't know if you can even read that. Maybe

549
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:08.799
that's bad television. But The Serpent's Tale Kundolini Yoga and

550
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:13.400
the History of an Experience by Sravanna Workataki Varma and

551
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.079
Anya Foxen, And this just came out at the end

552
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:18.759
of twenty twenty five right before I released my book,

553
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:24.000
and this is a history of kundalini, how sort of

554
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.640
its origins and where it went in the world. And

555
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.960
the thing that I gather from this book is that

556
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.759
there really is no good definition of kundalini. There are

557
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:39.160
a bunch of so called symptoms or whatever that people

558
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.240
talk about. But if there is a good single definition

559
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.279
or a good single like what it actually is, it's

560
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:50.559
been hidden from us all this time. And obviously people

561
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.680
come along and then they want to sell you something.

562
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:58.319
So and especially in America, we're really like, oh, kundalini, yoga, Kundalini,

563
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:02.119
breath work, kundalini, know, shock deepot, I can just give

564
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.759
it to you. So there are all these sorts of

565
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.160
things that we think are you know, if I tell

566
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.400
you that you do this this breath stuff and you

567
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.799
have a hallucination because of too much oxygen or lack

568
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.559
of oxygen, whatever it is, or you feel a tingling

569
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.160
in your spine, and you're told to associate that with kundelini,

570
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.240
then you're gonna be like, I have symptoms, I have Kunelini.

571
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.799
But what none of them in this book have gotten

572
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.240
is that the death of self has to occur that

573
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.039
all this stuff that's in this book and all this

574
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.599
stuff that you hear about and see on YouTube, that's

575
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:44.680
Kundalini is all thought, is all thought constructs, and there

576
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.799
needs to be a moment of the death of self

577
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:51.640
for truth to become one truth. You know, truth as

578
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.359
a first person experience comes through you. And so you

579
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.319
start speaking wisdom and the body has choiceless action, it

580
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.680
starts moving on its own. And I have a feeling

581
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:08.319
that what happened is a bunch of ancient people who

582
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.839
cared about this stuff peoply and got it. Did these

583
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:16.400
movements jotted down, you know, these things that we now

584
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.920
call yoga or exercises, but are after the fact, before

585
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.480
the fact, they just happened naturally, after the fact. I

586
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:25.200
jotted down a system, and now you buy it. Now,

587
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:27.599
now you come to me, and I'm your master. You

588
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.519
know what I mean. So that's what I mean. Kundalini

589
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.880
is the will of silence. Silence is what you become

590
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:38.000
when you're not there. You know that all sounds like sage.

591
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.599
Really I need a bigger beard to say that, but

592
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:43.480
that's kind of what it is. It is. It's you know,

593
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.680
it's a will power of truth that moves the body around,

594
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.960
and so you will get some of these things that

595
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.599
you do see online, psychic awakenings or you know, spontaneous

596
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.839
movements or whatever. I mean. It is spontaneous moving, but

597
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:03.000
it's not like what you see, and it's not it's

598
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:06.359
not controlled by you. It's not you don't control it

599
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:07.400
like an onox.

600
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:11.440
Switch's speaking of Kundalini. You actually in silence. You wrote

601
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.240
a book actually that is called Cundlini in the Secrets

602
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.759
of Silence, and you call it a touching and humorous

603
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:22.640
memoir where you lift the veil on the misconceived energy,

604
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.359
revealing what it is, what it's doing, and how these

605
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:31.440
answers deepen our own human mystery. Jeremy, what is it?

606
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.559
What's it doing? And how do those answers deepen our

607
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.440
own human mystery?

608
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:40.799
My god man? What question? Well, so it is as

609
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.960
I've been saying, it's the cundolini is the will of silence,

610
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:51.000
which is to say that truth or ultimate intelligence, however

611
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.880
you want to put it, we are in that. We

612
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.440
are in ultimate intelligence. We are consciousness pretending to be

613
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.160
a bunch of stuff or the imagination of man, and

614
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.920
all happening and you can actually and I would say

615
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.199
that what true human nature is is for us to

616
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:12.039
be and not assigned to a Jesus, a Buddha or whoever,

617
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.519
to be that first person experience of ultimate intelligence, so

618
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.000
that timeless, formless ultimate intelligence comes into time and form

619
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.639
this way, when you shut up, when you're no more,

620
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.320
when you're dissolved the self, this intelligence speaks and what

621
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.239
does it speak? It speaks truth? And what does it do?

622
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.760
It does Kundalini, you know, it does whatever the most

623
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.159
healthy thing is to do for you and the environment

624
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.760
that you live in. That's basically it. Now, So the

625
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.920
thing that we need to do that Indigenous people don't.

626
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.920
I've had this conversation with Tiokis and Ghost Horse, who's

627
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.760
an elder. I don't know if he wants to be

628
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.559
called an elder, but a Lakota speaker, and I think so,

629
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.800
I think he would agree with this that indigenous pe

630
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.440
at least the Lakota, don't have that sense of eye.

631
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.320
They don't even have eye in the language the way

632
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.119
the English language has possession and I and all this,

633
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:11.719
So they don't need to get rid of that sense

634
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.679
of self to come to heart and to realize that

635
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.559
they're part of the web of life, but we as

636
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.840
Western nice people do and so I have found that

637
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.800
the best way to do that, at least for me.

638
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:26.960
I mean, I'm sure there are multiple ways to do this,

639
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.960
but is to take any personal issue you have, like

640
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.679
you've got to be honest with yourself and sit alone

641
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.320
with yourself and don't make it a group exercise, but

642
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:41.280
just consider why you're a jerk or why you do

643
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.519
the things that you do, whatever it is, and deconstruct them. Oh,

644
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:48.599
it's because of this, because I had this experience, Well,

645
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.519
why did that person do that to me? What do

646
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.719
I know about that? What do I know about their parents?

647
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.599
What do I know about me? What do I know?

648
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.000
It always ends up going back to your own parents, right,

649
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:02.320
and then you ask like why did my parents do that?

650
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.639
Like what do I know about my grandparents on either

651
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.079
side or my great grandparents? And see how far back

652
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.679
you can go, And if you do enough of this deconstructing,

653
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:14.360
you may just come to the moment where not in

654
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.000
an intellectual way like you're going to understand it right now,

655
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.159
but like for yourself deeply in a way that dissolves you. Oh,

656
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.280
there is no end to this like, this is just

657
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.280
what we do to each other, parent to grandparents, go

658
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.760
down the lnerve your ancestry, and then zoom out to

659
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.760
every human being and it's the same. We're all in

660
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.800
this boat together. We're all doing this stuff to each

661
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.559
other because we're confused, we don't have clarity. That's just

662
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.320
what we do. We screw each other up, that's what

663
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.519
we do. And when you get that, when you really

664
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:55.719
get that, something breaks and it becomes this blissful nirvonic like, oh,

665
00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.719
this is what we are. We're all in this together.

666
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.719
So my problems are not my problems. They're everyone's problems.

667
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.199
We're all doing this and there's something about that that

668
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.079
feels like enlightenment. You can mistake it for enlightenment, but

669
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:12.239
it's really just coming to heart from the separative self

670
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.719
the brainiact separative self who's like, no, I'm autonomous, I

671
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:21.639
own property or And then so for me, I did

672
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.440
that and I thought, oh, I get it now. But

673
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:27.159
then I had a moment where I realized, no, I'm

674
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.880
just the guy who gets it now, right Like I've

675
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.320
still got a self identity. I've just moved the goalpost

676
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.800
to this person who gets it now. And when I

677
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.079
got that, that really broke me. And in that moment

678
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.360
was nothingness, just a blip of nothingness, and through that nothing,

679
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.639
you know, when nothingness was no more and I came back.

680
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:54.119
This kud Delini came back with me, and it rose

681
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.079
up the spine, but just the once rose up the

682
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.440
spine and to my head. You can feel it's alpable

683
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.079
and started rotating my head like this like an exercise,

684
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.000
not like the Exorcist. But all I have is the

685
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.800
Exorcist to go by, and so I thought, oh that,

686
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:15.440
like what is that? And maybe because of the alien

687
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.159
abduction stuff all my life, I wasn't that scared. I

688
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.239
was more intrigued by it, like maybe I'd had a

689
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.679
lifetime of like being flogged with fear that I'm like, okay,

690
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.599
I'm not gonna I just want to know what this is.

691
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.920
And so I stuck with that and let it unfold

692
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.239
and let it do its thing, because I didn't want

693
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:33.800
to get in the way. I felt like at some

694
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.119
point I could be like, oh, now I'm misachic, now

695
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:40.159
I'm a healer. I could you know, shut down and

696
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.679
form a new identity. But I really was like really interested,

697
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:47.039
like what is this leading to if it's leading to anything,

698
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:52.280
And so I just let it play out. And the

699
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.800
thing that it led to that I haven't heard anybody say,

700
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.920
which leads me to believe it's unfortunately rare. But it can't.

701
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.239
I can't be the only one, like that's just not possible.

702
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.960
Is I've only experienced this three times, which is, well,

703
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.800
let me start this. The kundalini if I just shut

704
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.199
up for a second, will come active and do a thing.

705
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.800
This other thing I'm not in control of, which is

706
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:20.360
you literally feel it feels like a surgically precise slit

707
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.840
opening in the spine at the base of the spine.

708
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:27.239
Oh good god, but well it sounds bad, but it's

709
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.639
it's like numb. It's like if you took a scalpel

710
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:31.920
to a numb part of your body that you could

711
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:33.599
feel the pressure of it, but not the pain.

712
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.639
It's like that still scalpels gear me.

713
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.280
I got you. The first time I felt that, it

714
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.000
felt like it's like a gill basically, like it's like

715
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.679
we've got a gill in us and this blissful beating

716
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.159
energy came into the body through the slit from head

717
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:55.920
to toe. Only my backside, but it felt like I

718
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.360
was not levitating, but it felt like I was levitating

719
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.519
on these beads of just blissful joy for maybe, I

720
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.039
don't know what, fifteen seconds or so, and then it

721
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.199
went back out the slit in the slit zipped back

722
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.440
up or whatever unscalpeled itself, and that was it. The

723
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.679
second time it happened. And now this is going to

724
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:20.559
be scary, will so prepare yourself. Oh, this time the

725
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.360
slit opened, the blissful beating energy came in, but then

726
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:29.400
some sort of red, demony gargoyle looking thing came in

727
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.719
with it. And I say that because I could see

728
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.679
it superimposed over me. I could see its teeth gnashing,

729
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.679
I could just bizarre and I could feel what it

730
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.760
felt like, and it felt like an immensely ancient not

731
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.920
at all smart, not intellectual at all, but an immensely

732
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.960
ancient being or something from somewhere else. And my fear

733
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.760
in that moment was like, oh, this is where I

734
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.199
had a really bad back at this point in my life.

735
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.519
And my fear was like, if I didn't have that

736
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.599
bad back, is this where I have like temporary insanity

737
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:01.239
and I get up and kill my roommates and run

738
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:02.800
into the street. And then I have to say, like,

739
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.800
is that what the like? I do have these fears

740
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:07.639
in the moment, I'm not.

741
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.519
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no. The fact that

742
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.840
you even went there scares me a little. To be

743
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.760
honest with you, I would have thought. I would have

744
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.599
thought instead, is this the reason why my back hurts?

745
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.159
Because I had this thing in my back? But you

746
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:24.079
take it to it. Am I supposed to go kill

747
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:24.639
my roommate?

748
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.320
Well? I didn't think. Am I supposed to go kill

749
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:33.239
I just thought would go kill them? But it didn't

750
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:39.119
as far as we know, so no. But what it

751
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.960
felt like it wanted was just to bask in the

752
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.159
glow of being alive for the few seconds that it

753
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:47.559
had and that was it. It did that, and it

754
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:49.320
slid out, and the energy slid out and the things

755
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:51.760
zipped up. And the third time it happened.

756
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.840
And this was in wait, wait a second, hang on you,

757
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:59.480
it went back inside you and you didn't freak out.

758
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.920
What I'm not saying, it's it slip out into the ether,

759
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.800
you know, And oh okay, I didn't slip back inside you?

760
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:08.039
Then?

761
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.800
No, no, no, no, And it was just that once

762
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.400
and then the third time energy comes in. Same thing,

763
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:19.599
slit opens, energy comes in, it slips out, and I

764
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.119
slip out with it. And in this third time I

765
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:27.960
slip out into nothingness, into like complete unconsciousness.

766
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.400
So like an out of body experience.

767
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.199
Well sort of. Well first there's nothingness and it's sort

768
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.719
of out of body, but but not we'll get to that.

769
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:44.000
So there's nothingness, and then nothingness becomes conscious and in

770
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.039
that moment of consciousness, I am now aware again. And

771
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.239
what I am seeing and being, there's a sense of

772
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:54.760
seeing and being is like a circle of clearness over

773
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.000
black expanding, And it can't be an out of body experience.

774
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.880
It's because I feel it expanding in my brain like

775
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:04.760
I feel an elasticity and I feel like it's about

776
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.719
to snap, and I think, oh, I'm about to have

777
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:08.960
an aneurysm and die. Like once again, I go to

778
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:17.239
the worst case scenario, you just stop that scripts so

779
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:20.800
it expands and it finally does snap. I don't die.

780
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.079
It snaps and there is a dot of light and

781
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.639
from that dot of light, the entire universe poofs into existence,

782
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.159
and now it is I am seeing and being each

783
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:35.079
individual thing at the same time. So I'm seeing and

784
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:38.239
being hot rock jettising through space, and I am that rock,

785
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:40.960
and I am that space. I'm seeing and being planets

786
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.960
and suns and all this and I am that. So

787
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:47.039
it's this but all at once, like it's incomprehensible in

788
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.960
a way, And the only thing I could even compare

789
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.440
it to is like a fli's eye, which is a

790
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.679
horrible comparison, but it's like a fly's eye is segmented

791
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.199
into a bunch of different eyeballs, all seeing, making one picture.

792
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:03.199
But also I would like to think the individual pictures

793
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.480
and the big picture, but apparently they don't have that capacity,

794
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:11.039
so it's a bad analogy. But anyway, fly right, So

795
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:14.079
that's what it is. That that was. I mean, I'm

796
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.760
trying to I know we're short for time, so I

797
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.440
want to get this in. As you know, it's like

798
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.599
this is the big universal I am experience, and I'm

799
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:32.360
just glossing over it for you. But this and I

800
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.039
concentrate on the headache that I had gone to bed

801
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.800
with and sort of pull myself back into normal consciousness

802
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:41.639
and I go back into the slit and I can

803
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:45.159
see I'm like my sense of perception is going up

804
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.000
into a spot in my head. But as I'm going

805
00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:50.400
I can see my inwards, I can see like blood

806
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:54.159
and bones, and you know, as I'm going up into myself,

807
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.000
and then the slit closes and I jump out of

808
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.119
bed and I pace around like an animal like that

809
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.679
that was that? Was? It? Insane? What we are? Yeah?

810
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.840
And then there's this immediate sense of who do you

811
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:10.440
want to be? Do you want to be that guy

812
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.519
or do you want to be normal Jeremy who has

813
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.960
this as a story that you can give to people

814
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.519
and explore and all of that. And for some reason

815
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:21.039
I didn't think I could be both, or I didn't

816
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.199
know because who knows what that guy looks like in

817
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:27.559
a day to day reality. So I chose to come

818
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.280
back and write about it, and that was probably a mistake.

819
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.079
But here I am, well much of what I'm I'm missaying.

820
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.360
So I think that's what the leading leads to, or

821
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:39.119
at least that's one of the things, Like you're asking

822
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.639
what what is it for? What's it about? And I

823
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.840
think that's what we're all supposed to be. Like I

824
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.639
think we chew our way out of the cocoon, and

825
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.840
that's us flying in some way that's universal consciousness. But

826
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.800
instead we just have put HDTVs and computers in our

827
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.320
cocoon and we're like, nah, I'm good, you know.

828
00:45:56.280 --> 00:46:01.119
I'll just right. So I've got to ask this question

829
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.199
with every due respect. I mean, it just has to

830
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.719
be asked, right. How many drugs did you take before

831
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:10.360
this happened?

832
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:16.480
No drugs. The only time I ever did drugs was

833
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:21.440
after that big eyem experience for Peratopia, the podcast. I

834
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.239
did this much shrooms like to like a hero's dose

835
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:28.800
of shrooms to compare it well. For me, I wanted

836
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.079
to compare it to everything that I've experienced. But Jeff

837
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.199
Ritzman and I he was an experiencer too. He has

838
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:35.519
passed away, but he was an experiencer, and we had

839
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.800
always heard that people can have abduction experiences on shrooms,

840
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:41.800
and I wanted to see what it was, you know,

841
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:44.039
So we went in to do it as like a

842
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:47.000
sort of an experiment, just like, let's see if we

843
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.920
can conjure an abduction and whatever. And it was not.

844
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.199
I would say it was. To me. It was cartoon town.

845
00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.480
It was frustrating, and it was I I can see

846
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.119
why people would think doing hallucinogens is enlightening. It's not.

847
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.039
It's actually I liken it to the difference between laughing

848
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.119
because you understand a good joke and tickle torture. You're

849
00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:14.880
laughing in both cases, but one is torture and the

850
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.679
other is understanding. And that's the big difference. This is

851
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:21.880
like you're inside someone else's imagination, some mushrooms imagination for

852
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:23.400
a while. It's like, look at this, look at this,

853
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:25.559
look at this, and you're like, I don't want to

854
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.360
look at that. Get me out of here.

855
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:31.320
Because because your your experience sounds sounds a lot like

856
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:36.480
something that someone on a trip would would experience ayauasca.

857
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.559
Or yeah, the death of the ego and that.

858
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:42.880
Right right, the birth of the universe out of the

859
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.679
flash light. All these things are very similar to some

860
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.719
of the people that we've talked about from ayouasca trips.

861
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:50.119
But this, this was completely natural then you You didn't

862
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.920
have anything inside you that that that elicited this this experience.

863
00:47:55.400 --> 00:48:00.559
No, yeah, And to that, I would say, it's interesting,

864
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:04.000
isn't it that, Like you go on these big ayahuasca

865
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:09.000
journeys and whatever, Eboga and all that, and the first thing,

866
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:12.800
these entities or this intelligence or this plant in medicine

867
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.199
or whatever it is, does is try to get you

868
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.920
right with yourself, right, Like that's the first step. We

869
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.039
never want to take that first step, but you'll go

870
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:25.320
into the freaking jungles of wherever to have this experience

871
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.840
to be told like by like a plant shrink. Uh,

872
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:33.119
you're on the clock here, let's deal with your psychological issues.

873
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.800
So I don't know, I find that kind of funny,

874
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:40.519
but I would say, like there is even a difference there,

875
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.960
Like I don't think that gives you this this experience

876
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:47.480
necessarily like nothingness. I've seen a bunch of YouTube videos

877
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:51.719
where people have done ayahuasca and said that they entered

878
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.480
a state of void and they were depressed about it,

879
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.920
or they were found themselves alone in nothingness and they

880
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.480
felt one way or another about it. Nothingness is nothingness.

881
00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:04.199
There is no you, There is no void. So what

882
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.760
I would say is that that plant medicine stuff is

883
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.719
it's replicas. It's like a carnival carnival of the mind

884
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.679
kind of thing. And it's not that it's useless or

885
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:19.679
not good or whatever, but it's just simply that that

886
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.599
truth in all this stuff that I've been talking about

887
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:28.639
is timeless And if you think about nonduality for a second,

888
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.079
like duality is us in time doing things and the

889
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.800
apparentness of everything, and then nonduality is if you step

890
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:36.679
out of that and you go, oh wait, there's no

891
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:38.760
such thing as time. It's all happening right now. I

892
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.800
can see the entire picture in front of me. How

893
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.079
that picture is alive, is living and wants to expand.

894
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:48.679
How does it really expand? It can only expand if

895
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:53.679
something from without, from timelessness, enters it. But then that's

896
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:55.480
its own death in a way. So it kind of

897
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:57.119
wants that a little bit, but it doesn't want it

898
00:49:57.159 --> 00:49:58.920
a lot a bit. So it'll take someone like me

899
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.199
and I'll have an experience, and then it will incorporate

900
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:07.000
that into the circus, right, and it'll create this replica

901
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.559
for people to engage with, so they don't. It's another

902
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.719
sort of challenge to coming out of the cocoon, which

903
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.800
is oh, by the way, the cocoon is alive and

904
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:18.280
doesn't want you to really chew through it except sometimes,

905
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:23.840
you know what I mean? Is that basically okay?

906
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.599
So then if someone wanted to access your book or

907
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:30.800
learn more about you, what's the best way for someone

908
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.239
to do that.

909
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.039
Our undoing dot com is my website and my books

910
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:39.000
are available on Amazon and wherever you get books.

911
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.440
Okay, well, we're going to add a direct link to

912
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:46.400
your website and place for you to access your books

913
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:47.960
on our show notes. So all you need to do

914
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.119
is go to Skeptic Metaphysition dot com and go to

915
00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:52.679
his episode page. You'll find those links laid in there

916
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.400
so it's easy for you to connect. Jeremy, thank you

917
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:59.159
for coming. You've given us quite a lot to think

918
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.920
about it, so I appreciate it. I think I might

919
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:05.239
go pick up because I think Whitley just released a

920
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.280
new book that I need to pick up and be

921
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:10.320
scared about again, so I'm looking.

922
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:10.559
Forward to it.

923
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.440
We're not slipping with the light on.

924
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:16.400
Oh okay, I'm not reading the book then, all right. Jeremy,

925
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.000
a pleasure meeting you. Thanks for being on the show.

926
00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:18.760
Thanks for having me.