Unraveling the Mandela Effect: Insights on Shifting Realities

0:00:01 - Speaker 1
Karen, yes, question for you. 

0:00:03 - Speaker 2
What's that? 

0:00:04 - Speaker 1
Did Curious George have a tail? 

0:00:06 - Speaker 2
Curious George did not have a tail. 

0:00:07 - Speaker 1
Did not have a tail. No See, I always remembered him having a tail. Now, what about Mickey Mouse? Did he wear suspenders? 

0:00:15 - Speaker 2
No. 

0:00:15 - Speaker 1
He, of course, he wore suspenders. What? 

0:00:17 - Speaker 2
are you talking about? He wore suspenders, the shorts just ended at the short. 

0:00:19 - Speaker 1
We're from different realities, I swear Now. Do you remember if the little dude on the Monopoly game had a monocle? 

0:00:28 - Speaker 2
You know, now I'm second guessing, like I would think yes, but maybe that's Mr Peanut. But I'm thinking about Well, you're right. 

0:00:33 - Speaker 1
Actually that's what people are saying. I do remember Mr Monopoly having a monocle, but people are saying that he didn't. So then last question what was it that Snow White chanted into the mirror when she asked a question? 

0:00:45 - Speaker 2
This one I've heard before, but apparently what do I remember? Her chanting oh yeah, mirror Mirror on the Wall. 

0:00:52 - Speaker 1
Well, that's not exactly what she said. According to what people are saying, then the main question is could we really have jumped into a new reality and some of us are just remembering the old one in those instances or are we just remembering things incorrectly because of a weird type of telephone game where one person misremembers something and spreads it around because of the bad memories that we might all have? 

0:01:12 - Speaker 2
Well, both are possible. 

0:01:13 - Speaker 1
That's a very good point. Yeah, today, of course, we are talking about the phenomenon known as the Mandela Effect, where masses of people remember things very differently from each other, and today's guest says that she absolutely has the answer to this mind-altering question. We're diving into it on this episode of the Skeptic Manifestations. My name is Will. 

0:01:35 - Speaker 2
And I'm Garen. 

0:01:36 - Speaker 1
And, unlike Mulder and Scully, we both want to believe. So we've embarked on a journey of discovery. 

0:01:40 - Speaker 2
We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and metaphysical world. 

0:01:44 - Speaker 1
We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even joined a coven of witches. 

0:01:48 - Speaker 2
And wait, you joined a coven. 

0:01:50 - Speaker 1
Yup, all in the interest of finding something, anything that will prove that there's something beyond this physical. 

0:01:56 - Speaker 2
Three-dimensional world we all live in. 

0:01:58 - Speaker 1
This is the Skeptic Manifestations. Hi, I'm Will. 

And I'm Garen, and today we're tackling the topic of reality jumping to help us get a handle on all the quantum leaping we're doing. Sorry, you had to do it. We've brought on the foremost expert in shifting realities, cynthia Sue Larson. She is the bestselling author of several books, including Quantum Jumps, reality Shifts and High Energy Money. She has a degree in physics from UC Berkeley, so you know we're not just talking about the woo here. And she's the founder of Reality Shifters, also the first president of the International Mandela Effect Conference, the managing director of Foundations of Mind and the creator and host of Living the Quantum Dream podcast. Now she's been featured in incredible shows like those found on Gaia, the History Channel, coast to Coast AM, which I was actually an avid fan of, one World with Deepak Chopra and the BBC. I don't want to talk anymore. I want to bring her on to the show. Cynthia Sue Larson, thank you so much for coming on the show. Meet with us. 

0:03:03 - Speaker 3
Thank you Will. Pleasure to be with you guys. 

0:03:07 - Speaker 1
Now did I pause it the topic. Well, Are those the questions that you hear all the time? People are asking when you need to talk about the Mandela Effect. 

0:03:15 - Speaker 3
Yes, those are typical examples of the Mandela Effect and there are lots more having to do with products, physiology, geography, you name it pretty much anything and everything is open to this particular phenomenon, which some people just want to back away from. It sounds too weird, but others, when it's happened to them, some of the reporters looking into it, are just astonished by things that they know for sure. They're just surprised to be one way and now they're different, like that mirror on the wall. I mean, that's absolutely what I remember the witch saying when she was looking in the mirror. 

0:03:50 - Speaker 1
Oh, yes, it was that magic mirror on the ball. It was that. Well, apparently the witch of the man was no white, no, they went through and edited everything All the websites, all the old movies. Right, right, they're wrong. Much more plausible possibility than it. Cynthia, how is it possible that we're remembering things differently? How can that be? 

0:04:13 - Speaker 3
Well, there are lots of possible reasons for that, and I personally love to get into the quantum physics explanations for this. I love it. I love it too. However, it doesn't necessarily make things crystal clear and perfectly understandable as one might help. 

0:04:30 - Speaker 1
I love it a little bit less now. 

0:04:33 - Speaker 2
Because I really like it Right right. 

0:04:36 - Speaker 3
Because in this area, the quantum interpretations of what's going on with quantum theory, those are not yet pinned down and finalized. We have some discussion going, so we've got everything from the multiverse that a lot of people have heard about to things people have not so much heard about, such as quantum Baynesianism, cubism, gesundheit, exactly. But it gets into this idea of subjectivity perhaps being having a lot more to do with what we're noticing, things like what Eric Cavalcanti, the physicist, calls vigner bubbles of reality Reality bubbles, which means maybe we have a subjective sense and awareness of what's going on, and maybe it doesn't even agree with what we think happened. So it's possible for us to be witnessing literally different realities. 

0:05:29 - Speaker 1
I am chomping at the bit to tell you something, but, karen, go ahead first. 

0:05:33 - Speaker 2
That just really explains the whole phrase. When someone burst your bubble, I love it. Get out of town. 

0:05:39 - Speaker 1
Karen, with the pulling out the wisdom already in the show Every once in a while. 

0:05:44 - Speaker 3
I get lucky. That makes a lot of sense. That was brilliant. Love it, Karen. 

0:05:49 - Speaker 1
Okay, so then let's back up a little bit. For those that may not be aware, if they've been living under a rock somewhere and they haven't heard of the Mandela effect, I know that it happens to be named after a very specific instance in our history. Can you talk to us about where this all came from? 

0:06:06 - Speaker 3
Yes, it originated with the memory that a lot of people had that Nelson Mandela died while he was incarcerated in prison on Robbins Island and in that reality he did not go on to become the president of South Africa. But we know he did become president of South Africa. So this is quite a conundrum and the term came to be popularized after it was first mentioned. I wouldn't want to give credit to Art Bell on coast to coast. 

0:06:35 - Speaker 1
Oh, I loved Art Bell. 

0:06:36 - Speaker 3
Yeah, he doesn't get enough, nearly enough credit, because he was getting deluged with faxes back in the day and phone calls and people calling and just saying what happened to Nelson Mandela? Why do we think that he died when he didn't? But she owned a broom popularized the term around 2009. So for the last decade or more, we've been talking about this Mandela effect. Art Bell himself asked me if I would call it the Mandela effect. I said no because to me, even the example of Nelson Mandela having died for some of us. I remember that he died too. I remember the whole thing about his widow and what was going on with the property, the estate, and it was just so sad when he passed away, when he was incarcerated, because it just seemed like such a waste of life, but of course that didn't happen with it. 

0:07:31 - Speaker 2
So how did he just pop back into your reality, like all of a sudden he's not dead, or like how? 

0:07:36 - Speaker 3
He's not the only one. Yeah, this is definitely something that some celebrities seem to go through, at least from our standpoint, that's a good point. 

0:07:46 - Speaker 1
Yeah, you ask, hey, is someone so dead? And you look it up and no, no, he's still alive. How could a sworn he died, right? You get that all the time. 

0:07:51 - Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah, I brought it up in my book Reality Shifts because the actor of Larry Hagman, he passed away and then in my reality he was alive again. And I'm not the only one that noticed that. So before there was the Mandela effect, I didn't call it the Hagman effect, I called it alive again. 

0:08:12 - Speaker 1
Well, at that point it might have been the who Killed JR effect, right? Because that whole thing with Dallas, the TV show who Killed JR. He played JR Ewing in that show and some people say that that's why you remember him dying because of that show. And of course the next season we came back and suddenly it had all been a dream. So it kind of matches reality. Maybe is that like the Illuminati trying to just you see nothing like the Force Like you. These are not the droids you're looking for, kind of thing. 

0:08:42 - Speaker 3
That's a good question. I don't have the answer. I mean, some people do theorize that maybe there are some dark forces afoot, maybe somebody's tampering with technology that they shouldn't have access to, and all that good stuff. I don't think we need to go there with these explanations, because when I look for evidence of this phenomenon I see it going back way before there were any Cyclotrons, before there was a large headrun collider. 

0:09:08 - Speaker 1
So yeah, I was. I was just gonna bring up that fact. A lot of people are kind of Pointing their fingers at Kern. Right, that's where the current CERN I don't know how you, but CERN, that massive collider that they have that people are saying that that's actually causing us to alter realities and some people think that it's gonna open up a black hole and tear up Are our physical reality and destroy us all kinds of things. 

0:09:31 - Speaker 3
But you don't think that has anything to do with it, then I See that the effect of the phenomenon go back prior to the time of cyclotrons, and so Mary Rose Barrington she's a researcher that was noticing what she called just one of those things J-o-t-t, and she was a paranormal researcher in the United Kingdom, also very well respected, and she wrote a book about it, and she her information, goes back Like more than a hundred years of reports and stories about this phenomenon. So I would say it's safe to Recognize that this is an ongoing situation, that it's, as strange as it may seem, it's part of being human, and, thanks to the internet, we're starting to share experiences, find out more about these things, get to the heart of what the reality Really is so then, do you think this could have happened before the Mandela Effect, right, for lack of a better term before Mandela's death, or yes? 

death? Absolutely yeah, because I was writing about it back in the 1990s. I've been experiencing it all my life and Mary Rose Barrington, as I just said, she's got Documented reports going back to the early 1900s. So this is quite remarkable that we've got a phenomenon with a long-established history, and I'm looking for the science, I'm looking to find out what can we show From perhaps a new way of viewing quantum theory, quantum physics? They could explain this, and consciousness seems to play a big role. If we look at the subject of nature of each, of our ability to Observe reality, that seems to be playing a big role too. So we can gather the evidence and to see, you know, where is it taking us? 

0:11:06 - Speaker 2
Well, before we get into the science of it, can you tell me what are some of the earliest Documented examples of this? I'm so curious now. What did you find? 

0:11:15 - Speaker 3
Okay, she was noticing, like I said, just one of those things she had Reference to sort of this whole syntax of things like walkabouts and comebacks and you know she had different terminology to follow to explain it. But these were things that we might notice, just household items Disappearing or just appearing like arriving out of nowhere I would call it disappearing and reappearing, and she had slightly different terminology. But she was putting ads and newspapers and periodicals to get people to share their reports because she was certain this was definitely happening, definitely a thing I don't. As far as I know, there weren't reports of people being alive again that would be my terminology for it and certain specific variation of the Mandela effect. But she's absolutely noticing on a case-by-case, very personalized basis, these what I would call reality shifts. I am. 

0:12:10 - Speaker 2
So it wasn't like everyone thinking. Ricky Ricardo said Lucy, you guys must plain and to do when he never said that. 

0:12:15 - Speaker 1
No, there wasn't like a mass group, it was just individual. I was there, I saw him say it. 

0:12:23 - Speaker 3
I know, I think I said the dart bell when he interviewed me. I said you got so explaining to do. 

0:12:31 - Speaker 1
That's awesome. Yeah, I love this conversation to jazzes me up so much. Something happened. I gotta ask you a question because I got. I can't. I can't Hold it back any longer. Something happened to me not longer like last week, as a matter of fact, as I was traveling. So before I get into it, the people who have listened to this episode the beginning of the episode will have heard the story, so I'm just gonna give you a truncated version. 

Thank you. Version of the story that's. I don't bore the audience, but before I go into it, is it possible for someone to actually notice a shift, or is this something that happens and we don't notice until after the fact, like in the middle of it happening? 

0:13:06 - Speaker 3
I have noticed it in the middle of it happening. So, yes, yes, it's totally possible to happen a couple times, a few times and it's really astonishing when that happens. 

0:13:15 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it is. It is amazing I was. I had to call Karen as soon as that happened to me because I could not believe it. I was traveling, I was on a flight and the day before I check on my app. Like I said before, this is not the show is not sponsored by Delta Airlines, but I was flying, delta had a Delta app on. I Looked out on my seat assignment, like I do every time I fly day before, just to make sure I everything's all set. And I checked in. It is 20d, I'm all set. 

I get to the airport, I check again to make sure 20d. Okay, right, I must have checked 3, 4, 5 times because I'm OCD sometimes about that kind of stuff. I get on the airplane, I sit down in 20d because I looked at it again. Sit down 20d and a couple minutes later a woman comes down the island, goes oh, you're in my seat. No, of course I'm not. I'm 20 did. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry, miss, the D is the ILC. You must mean the middle seat, which is open. And she goes no, no, my seat is 20d. Said no, of course not. 

I opened up my app to show her and, as I'm watching, I see 20d and in an instant is shift to 20c, like an immediate like. I was looking at it for a split second. It said 20d and then suddenly it said 20c in this flight attendant. Of course, in my shock, it took the flight attendant to say to me oh no, sir, you're in 20c. Who's looking? She was looking over my shoulder. I didn't know what to do. So, of course, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I can't understand this. So I went and sat in 20c. So my question is because we talk a lot on the show about Reality shifting for different reasons, if it's because you have to learn something or there's something that someone needs, or something like that. So I was curious, like what could it possibly mean? Why would the reality have shifted in that sense? Why? Why would the universe have gone from a universe where Nelson Mandela died to a universe where Nelson Mandela was alive? What purpose is there in that? 

0:15:01 - Speaker 3
Well, there are lots of purposes. I'm for one thing with Nelson Mandela that we get the benefit of decades more of his life and the good things that he said and did, and so For, as he was a very Force for you know, positive force for good, with the case of a seat, then you've got a conversation happening that you might not have had otherwise, might bring up the whole topic that you might not otherwise have talked about. Then to me those are good things too, so I would see the silver lining there. 

0:15:27 - Speaker 1
That's a great point, I, but I question myself why. You know, curious George, having a tail or not. What does that have to do with with the tea in China? Right, why does 20d and 20c what to make difference now to me? I've been looking for the university give me a sign and this stuff that we're talking about, yes, legit. 

0:15:43 - Speaker 2
So maybe that was what oh yeah, it was universe going lamb there is, will stop complaining. 

0:15:48 - Speaker 1
I showed you. 

0:15:51 - Speaker 2
Alright. Well, so on behalf of our audience, I'm gonna be you now. 

0:15:55 - Speaker 1
Okay, oh boy. 

0:15:57 - Speaker 2
Were you drinking? 

0:15:59 - Speaker 1
It doesn't matter whether I was drinking or not. That is, besides, the point. I remember it. I watched it the day before I saw the seat assignment, the day before, before I had anything to drink. 

0:16:10 - Speaker 2
Now, but that was just joking with that, but here's like a legit question. Could it have been that the techno, like your seat, had been changed and the, for whatever reason, in the computer on the plane and it had not updated? I and you saw the moment it was updating on your phone. 

0:16:24 - Speaker 1
I thought that I went back and checked in. The seat that I had before was 26 D, not 20 D. 

0:16:33 - Speaker 2
Maybe you were just wait what? That you're like way wrong. 

0:16:37 - Speaker 1
No, no, no, no, I'm sorry, no you thought it had to be 26. No, what I thought. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant my previous flight. My previous leg might have been 20 D and it had we hadn't Updated itself to the next flight. 

0:16:51 - Speaker 2
No, I mean like the, the seating chart of that flight in the computer. Maybe that was updating when you look at it on your app, because if it had been like a paper ticket, and you saw that chance. 

0:17:00 - Speaker 1
Don't go a holy cow. 

0:17:02 - Speaker 2
But like with electronics, you know, you just never know that is a fair point. 

0:17:05 - Speaker 1
however, you can tell when an app is updating and there was no updating happening at the time that I saw like there it, there's a little little thing that goes around the circles when it's updating it. There was no update, it just Shifted, it just changed. It was immediate. 

0:17:20 - Speaker 2
I just had to be the skeptic. 

0:17:21 - Speaker 1
I understand, but I don't like it. 

0:17:25 - Speaker 2
You're in the hot seat. Poor people that you ask those questions. 

0:17:30 - Speaker 1
I apologize to everyone who's been on the show before. All right, so this conversation is fascinating. I could talk to you about this for an hour, but we got to take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna continue speaking with Cynthia Sue Larson about the Mandela fact and how we Potentially are shifting our realities from one reality to another. We'll be right back right after these words and we're back on the skeptic manifestations. We are speaking about Shifting realities and we are comparing notes because I had some strange things happen to me that I it made me stand up and take notice. I can't explain it. So if you are just tuning in now, then you missed a lot. Rewind the tape and go back and start from beginning, because it's it would be Worth your while. 

Cynthia, before the break, we're about to go into the science of all this stuff, why you're going to explain this whole hand waving away and tell us how this all works. So the floor is yours. 

0:18:28 - Speaker 3
Well, I can lay some foundation. I can't explain the whole thing, that is so. We'll start with just the idea that in quantum physics there are some basic principles where you may have heard of spooky action at a distance. That's what Albert Einstein. 

0:18:42 - Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. 

0:18:43 - Speaker 3
What he's talking about, this concept of basically entanglement, where there might be sort of a group of quantum particles that they they share some properties. They're basically one entangled system in a sense, and they move together. Which is to say that if they all have spin up at the same time, where if one spin up and the other spin down, if you make an observation of this one that's that's next to you, the farther one will be Making a corresponding change at the same time. So this, this is just one of the basic facts about quantum physics. We know that that's true. It sounds really weird because it seems like it's happening regardless of the space between things, and there there've been a lot of, there's been a conjecture about that, like are we breaking this, the speed of light speed limit, you know, if something's able to instantaneously change what it's, so far apart, but, clearly it can. 

And all of this definitely does happen based on an observation. So there's the role of conscience agency. It's definitely happening and this is such a big the science of the Mandela effect is so huge that I don't think we can adequately address it Just in a few minutes but I want people to understand that some of the principles of quantum physics are laying the groundwork for us to start Recognizing that what we're seeing and what we expect to see in the so-called realm of the very, very small Also occurs at every level and every scale of reality, including the cosmos, meaning that it can happen that we might notice that we're in a different part of the universe, for example. 

0:20:22 - Speaker 1
I Just to just to back up for a second, because the people who are listening probably know what entanglement is, but there might be some that don't don't haven't heard the story. You're referencing a study that was done where particles that were I guess it's connected in some way before were split apart and put with the 14 miles apart from each other seven miles one way, seven miles the other and they affected one particle and the measured to see how long it would take for the other particle to affect the same Change and they found that was instantaneous. It wasn't. There was no time that went between the two. Is that that kind of correct? I'm not a scientist. 

0:21:01 - Speaker 3
I want to make sure. Yeah, that's right. There are constantly experiments confirming this fact that quantum entanglement is quite real property of quantum physics. So that's absolutely for sure. What's not so for certain is which of the possible interpretations of quantum physics is happening. What's the reason? What's going on? That kind of thing? That's where the conversation happens. 

0:21:22 - Speaker 1
There is a school of thought that says that this proves that if you were one at one point, right, if you were one thing at one point and we're separated at some point, then we are always connected at the quantum level, no matter how far away we are. So people are seeing this proof that we, like everyone says, we are all one, right, we're all connected right so anything that you do for one person actually ultimately affects the others around us, because we were one at One point at the big bang. 

0:21:47 - Speaker 3
That's something yeah, that is, that's true. And this. This could tie in with some of the physiological Mandela effects that we are noticing, such as some of us remember what a kidney punch was and where the human kidneys used to be. We remember, I mean, if I just ask you guys now, where do you think the human kidneys are like if you put your hands over your kidneys? Right, yeah, will you do it. Yeah, yeah, that's where they used to be, and so it was illegal in boxing and martial arts. 

0:22:16 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I know what do you mean. They used to be. 

0:22:21 - Speaker 3
Where did they go? They have moved slightly upwards, to the relative safety of the rib cage. So now oh, no. They've lifted up, they've moved up. So it doesn't really make sense to stop the kidney puns from happening, because kidneys aren't quite where we remember they used to be. 

0:22:40 - Speaker 2
But notice, we'll put our hands there. You know, this is a totally normal reaction. Would that just be evolution? Well we just haven't written. No one's made a good, you know whatever in a long time. 

0:22:54 - Speaker 3
We just saw it. It's like a huge jump. It's a quantum jump in evolution. 

0:22:58 - Speaker 1
Right from the time I woke up yesterday to today. I mean, you know, we saw a TV show the other day when the guy got punched in the kidneys in the back and he was like, oh right, so apparently someone didn't get a memo. 

0:23:12 - Speaker 2
Maybe he got shot in the spleen and didn't realize it. He thought it was the kidneys. 

0:23:16 - Speaker 3
So you're going to see some residue like that Some people call it reality residue where we've got evidence showing that some of us remember that. But remember, if humanity is entangled and if we're getting some sort of a physiological upgrade like that, then it is happening to all eight billion people on the planet simultaneously because we are entangled to that degree. 

0:23:36 - Speaker 2
Now I feel all cramped up in here. The kidneys up in my lungs. It's freaking me out. 

0:23:42 - Speaker 1
There's not enough room in there for kidneys. Get out of here. 

0:23:44 - Speaker 2
Go back down. 

0:23:46 - Speaker 1
Oh my goodness, this is incredible, wow, yeah. 

0:23:50 - Speaker 2
It's freaking me out about the kidneys. 

0:23:53 - Speaker 1
Wait. So everything else we just talked about didn't figure out and took the kidneys to freak you out? 

0:23:58 - Speaker 3
Yeah, because Also getting personal. 

0:24:02 - Speaker 2
Because you can explain a lot of this stuff way like the curious George tail thing. Ok, so maybe some people think they see the monkey, he's wearing pants. If you've got pants on, you're not going to have a tail, you have a little hole in the pants and the tail came out of. 

0:24:13 - Speaker 3
Let me finish. 

0:24:14 - Speaker 2
Let me finish. So the other people think he's a monkey. He's got a tail, so they automatically see the tail. The other ones see the pants. So I could see some of that stuff happening. 

0:24:22 - Speaker 1
As a matter of fact, curious, george did not wear pants. He didn't wear pants. He did not wear pants. He had a tail, so he couldn't wear pants. 

0:24:29 - Speaker 2
He didn't have pants, that's right. Maybe they wanted him to wear pants, but if he had had pants on, he wouldn't have. 

0:24:33 - Speaker 1
No, Cynthia. Is it possible that a third reality came in, where Karen remembers curious George with pants? Could we be living in that much of a difference? 

0:24:42 - Speaker 3
I have seen examples of that, such as the thinker statue. You know it looks like that statue with the position of the hand is moved around, and so it's been in several different positions for some people. I'm just some people remember it was on the forehead. Some people remember on the chin. 

0:24:59 - Speaker 1
It's the chin. It's definitely the chin. He's like this on the chin. You could see his face. Oh my god, now I'm second guessing. Myself. 

0:25:06 - Speaker 3
Oh no, and the position of it and the way it's moved, its position is kind of interesting. So it's really good to show what you remember right now, and that's one where there are several different correct answers, meaning they may not match what it shows the Rodin sculpture, but to me they're all second guessing my whole life right now. 

0:25:26 - Speaker 2
Oh, everything, who are you Will? Yeah, are we? 

0:25:28 - Speaker 1
married. I'm sorry, my name is Steve. Can I know you? Yeah, no, it actually. So it brings up a good point, because a while back we had a group of people talking about really in like deep conversation stuff and we got into the couple of conversations that might actually relate to this. One was simulation theory right, that we are all living in a simulation that could put perhaps people are making changes in it, and that could be what we're remembering. The other is the fact that we might just be constructs of each other's reality. So what I see as reality, the way I create the universe, is completely different than the way Karen creates the universe, and we are seeing things differently, even as much as like, maybe how do you explain the color green to someone who is blind? But you can't? So what she sees as green might be purple to me, and we have no way of knowing. 

0:26:14 - Speaker 3
Right yeah, I've seen so much evidence to suggest we are getting subjective personal realities. There is some coherence because of the entanglement, so that we're recognizing some things similarly, but there's also this factor that you're mentioning right now where it can be quite different as well, and that's also kind of disturbing for a lot of people when you realize if you talk, you think. 

Yeah, you talk to your family and you talk about early childhood situations, when you were a kid and your sibling remembers it quite differently and they're certain that what you remember did not happen that way. 

0:26:47 - Speaker 1
That's exactly what happened with my brother. He thinks I tortured him, but I know I did not love him. 

0:26:52 - Speaker 2
Well, my sister had asked me maybe she had a kidney infection this whole time. There could be some big differences. 

0:26:59 - Speaker 3
So it makes a difference to pay attention to the intentions and the questions that we're asking, you know, intentions about the past and the future. Just keeping things positive Something that I've found makes a huge good, positive difference as well- Wow, how did you get interested in this? 

0:27:16 - Speaker 2
Like what caused you to? I was interested in this. 

0:27:19 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I was going to study it Because I was watching it happen. Like I remember that I went on a vacation with my parents. They made a promise to some woodcarvers that will get photos of this furniture that they ordered that it was put on a boat from India to the United States, took a long time to get there. When it finally arrived, then, of course, there's a whole process of getting it cleaned up and in position. Now it's in the house and I remind my parents well, what about the photographs? What photographs? The pictures that you promised you're going to take? And my parents don't lie, but they were assuring me no, we never made any promise like that. So there was that. 

And then I also heard a song that they were saying for the first time ever, we're going to play this on the radio. And I'd heard it so many times before that I was completely sick of it and I thought you're kidding me. Not that song, you know. And so, and I would ask my sister do you remember this song? And she didn't know what I was talking about. But these are early examples of the Mandela effect in the 1970s. And so I've had, I've been having it since the 60s, my whole life, and so I know it goes way, way, way back. It says not new, but we're noticing it with the internet. 

0:28:27 - Speaker 1
So, karen, next time I say I didn't say that, it might just be we're in different realities. It's not me not remembering things correctly. 

0:28:34 - Speaker 2
Yeah, no, now you had an excuse. I don't know how to feel about that. 

0:28:37 - Speaker 1
Thank you, cynthia. Yeah, ma'am, and. 

0:28:40 - Speaker 3
I said this in court. I was on jury duty selection and I said all this and guess what? I got selected for the jury and what I know. I explained this. The judge leaned forward and he said but you will abide by the rules of this court. And I said I'm thinking, did you not just hear everything I said? I said yes. They said I mean Lee and Becky was happy and both of the attorneys were happy. 

0:29:04 - Speaker 1
So I know that's surprising. 

0:29:07 - Speaker 3
Well, I guess it may I don't know that it made sense to them, but it didn't sound insane because. So this is very strange times we live in. It really is Wow. 

0:29:16 - Speaker 1
I mean, to me it doesn't sound insane, but it does at the same time. So maybe I'm living I'm straddling two different realities, and one it's insane and the other one it's not, because I'm pretty conflicted on this whole thing. 

0:29:26 - Speaker 3
It is challenging a natural assumption that we have objectivity, that we can make such a thing as an objective observation, and that that's one truth that everyone can agree on. It's a direct challenge to that, but then so are some of these other ways of looking at quantum physics, so that's why it's interesting to consider the two together. 

0:29:47 - Speaker 1
And now kind of second guessing. I'm thinking back to, maybe, people who are in mental institutions because they remember things differently than everybody else. Could that have been something like this? Maybe they're, they're fine, they're just stuck in that other reality. It's scary because there's a slight possibility that you know, you've seen the sci-fi shows where someone comes back from time and everything's completely different. He's the only one that remembers the way things were, but the rest of his family are strangers to him. That kind of thing Level with me. How possible is that? 

0:30:22 - Speaker 3
To some degree, I'd say anything's pretty much possible. From what? 

0:30:25 - Speaker 1
I've seen, oh great. 

0:30:27 - Speaker 3
But here's there's the good thing. Remember the entanglement. This is the good thing, that those spooky action at a distance, the fact that we can be entangled with love with one another, the fact that when all of our kidneys change, they all seem to jump upwards together. We get a huge evolutionary improvement, seemingly overnight. So these are good things. That means that if you're noticing a change, typically you're not going to be the only one, and that's what's amazing about the Mandela effect. So many people are together noticing huge changes to what they think was true. 

0:31:01 - Speaker 2
But do you think people will or can use it as an excuse for forgetting conversations or things like? 

0:31:07 - Speaker 1
will is joking about Joking when you're talking about. 

0:31:10 - Speaker 2
I tend to both. This is going to make my life hell. 

0:31:13 - Speaker 3
I believe in the goodness of human beings. I believe that people are not setting out to be annoying or mischievous or causing trouble for no reason. So Absolutely. 

0:31:23 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and it brings up another point, because another theory that I might think about is the fact that we've talked to people that say that we quantum surf. 

0:31:33 - Speaker 2
Reality Transurfing. 

0:31:34 - Speaker 1
Reality Transurfing where they talk about different, diverging timelines, and could it be that we are living different timelines, that we remember different things, and Karen that I see here in this conversation might not be the same Karen that I married 15 years ago. 

0:31:52 - Speaker 3
Well, these are good points that you bring up. And Philip K Dick? He's the author of so many science fiction, novels and so forth. 

0:31:58 - Speaker 1
I love Philip K Dick. Yeah, yes. 

0:32:00 - Speaker 3
Because he brought this up. He gave a talk in Metz, france, where he was really talking about the Mandela effect. He was talking about reality shifts, corner jumping, reality Transurfing, all of this basically because he was saying what if you go to flip on a light switch and it's not where? You remember it? That it was and it's completely different and I described this in my book Reality Shifts. But that was in the 1990s. And here Philip K Dick is ahead, 20 years ahead of all of us in the 1970s, bringing this up. So I think he really deserves a lot of credit for having the courage to have mentioned that. He also said that he had experienced many timelines and the title of his talk was if you think this world is bad, you should see some of the others. That's all about the timeline idea, all about that. 

0:32:44 - Speaker 1
I love that, I love that and Karen it kind of goes along the lines of our thought process is where we create our own reality. 

So, to us because we're really focused on the positive things in life. Those negative entities that people talk about all the time, we don't experience that because that doesn't exist in our reality. So this could be the same general effect where we have decided to go down this timeline, but there's another alternate Karen and Will that went down the other timeline, that are right now in battle with demons as we speak. 

0:33:14 - Speaker 3
Well, hopefully not. 

0:33:17 - Speaker 2
I know right. 

0:33:19 - Speaker 3
My preference would be to prune those timeline. You know it's like branches on a tree. Can you do that? I do that all the time, the past and the future, because I don't want any version of me to be taken over by demons. That's unacceptable. 

0:33:32 - Speaker 1
Yeah, any kind of demon activities unacceptable. 

0:33:34 - Speaker 3
I agree. 

0:33:37 - Speaker 1
So how do you do that? How do you prune those timelines? 

0:33:41 - Speaker 3
It's the power of conscious agency and levels of conscious agency. So when we talk about ourselves, you know who am I, you know what level of conscious agency and am I employing. This gets beyond physics, because so far they haven't been looking at these things. I think they're going to have to pretty soon, especially with cubism and relativistic quantum theory and so forth. But basically, okay, let's make it simple. You've got your idea in your head, that's what you're thinking. Your idea in your heart, that's what you're feeling. And your idea in your gut that's what you know that you need and it's absolutely has to happen. 

But if these are not lined up, then you can be pulled different directions. There are also higher levels of conscious agency, above what fits in our body, and this gets into when you meditate. You do those meditations where you notice that the thoughts and feelings you're observing are not necessarily you, but you are something greater than that You're the observer. So what is that observer? So the more you can identify with these higher levels of conscious agency, the more likely it is that you can start exerting some positive influence along the lines of what I'm talking about, where you can prune those possible timelines in your life that there's no reason that you never wish to inflict on yourself or anyone. 

0:34:56 - Speaker 1
It's like lucid dreaming, but awake. That's amazing. What you're saying about the meditation and all that kind of stuff makes perfect sense. We are the observer, we're the watcher, the whole thing, and we've heard it many times about. The closer you are to self, the easier it is to not predict your outcome, but actually create your own reality, create the outcome that you prefer. But for those of us that are not out there meditating and not consciously trying to make effect specific changes in us, are we forever trapped in like? Who makes the decisions to jump together? Is it one person? Is it a massive amount of people? Does it have to be a certain critical mass that we make changes, or can one dude sit in the corner and decide I want my kidneys in my rib cage? 

0:35:46 - Speaker 3
Well, usually one person might be able to affect everything, but that doesn't typically happen. Getting back to your original question, what about the dude who's not meditating? The person there is, they're caught up in it. Some people might call them a non-player character, but I don't. I consider that they're just not a race car yet. They're not revved up and they're not like souped up and super powerful and all engines pulling together as one. Instead, they've got some disalignment. Probably if they're not meditating, they're out of their head. Their heart, their gut that's not lined up. They're not in a harmonious alignment necessarily. 

If you meditate, it's more likely you'll start moving toward alignment. Once you're in alignment, then you can start moving toward higher levels of conscious agency. Meanwhile, you're definitely getting the benefit of the tipping point of humanity, as we're evolving consciously together. This is huge groundswell. We are reaching a change point, as more than 10% of the people in the United States, for example, are meditating. That's having a huge impact. The hundreds monkey syndrome, where all of us being entangled, we're pulling together. The rising tide lifts all boats and that's definitely happening right now. That's good news. That is good news. I tend to look at it positively. Even the person who's not meditating, they're getting the benefits. They still need to work on lining things up. At least do that, so that what they think they want is what they love and what they truly need. That's not lined up. What I'm really saying is, if they don't, they're going to start manifesting a mess. 

0:37:20 - Speaker 1
That might be actually what's happened, because we are a mess right now. We need to all meditate towards the good, for God's sake. 

0:37:28 - Speaker 2
I'm sorry, I have so many questions. How does this work with spirituality? When you die and you go to wherever you go, is the whole time reality transforming happening down here? Is it happening up there? Is it both? Are there choices? 

0:37:48 - Speaker 3
I call it quantum jumping For me, reality shifting. Both are true, both are popular terms right now too, but what we're doing when we do that is to engage the true identity of who. We are, recognizing that maybe this is all Maya, it's all a dream. That's what the ancient teachings say from thousands of years ago. 

Excuse me, not only is this a dream, but we also notice that it could be maybe a simulation. That's a new fangled word for the same thing. But if we're looking at that and recognizing, if we've got subjective reality, meaning that each individual conscious agent has something to do with what they're experiencing and we're all co-creating together and it's all sort of an illusion, then what is the spiritual truth here? To me that's very important because it shows that there's an underlying order to everything. That's what I see. When I look deeply, I start seeing that there is ultimate goodness. I know that's a very precise way of looking at the idea that in philosophy there can be one best possible world. 

There's the work of a living philosopher, nicholas Resher. He wrote a book called Axiogenesis, picking up the positive philosophy viewpoints and bringing that whole idea forward. I think it's beautiful. But he's basically taking the ideas that were first proposed by Gottfried Wilhelm Leipniz, who was a co-creator for calculus and such a brilliant genius of a person. But he originated the idea of the perennial philosophy that all of the paths of experience and spirituality kind of lead toward a pinnacle point. When you attain the physical experience of stillness, you instantly acquire a very difficult experience to describe, but it's that place where you're in infinity and you're in eternity together, and I think that's the key to this whole process. So, yes, it definitely plays a role. 

0:40:00 - Speaker 1
Is it accelerating? Are more and more people realizing these effects, these changes? 

0:40:07 - Speaker 3
Yes, it is accelerating and it is happening, I think, because, in large part because so many people are experiencing it, there's a huge groundswell of momentum now. So, even people that didn't wish to experience such a thing and I do hear from them they say look, I have not meditated, cynthia, what's happening? I didn't want this to happen, but it's that rising tide business. They're noticing realities changing. It's not what they thought it was. 

0:40:35 - Speaker 1
That explains a lot Everything we talk about on the show, karen, because even manifesting could be explained by this, by the consciousness shift, the timeline, the reality shifts, all that kind of stuff. It could be that we're just hopping into a timeline that gives us what we are asking for. It's super exciting because I had been asking for a sign for a very long time. I've seen the numbers by the 333s and 1111s, a lot of stuff, and I've been opening myself up more and more to a point where a lot of people telling me you're trying too hard. So very recently I decided to just release surrender. Let's see what happens. If something happens, happens. If it doesn't, it's okay. I'm here for a reason and that's all good. And as soon as I did that, bam, the seat changed from 20D to 20C. So I welcome these rally shares because it makes me sit up and go holy smokes, this stuff is real. 

0:41:29 - Speaker 3
And if that wasn't great, that was an upgrade too, because C is passing. So, yay, you passed. I love it. 

0:41:39 - Speaker 2
Oh my gosh, it's just so I'm thinking about it. Now I have this visual of the earth surrounded by all these lines, of all these million people and their realities, and this frenetic energy, chaotic and stressing me out. If you're thinking, if this is what the reality is, how do you find peace? 

0:41:57 - Speaker 3
This is where grounding is important. So walking barefoot, just laying down on the grass or on the earth, if you're able to do that. Hug a tree if you can do that. Meditate, if that works for you. Anything for some people, music for some people, slowing their breathing down. So there are many, many ways to do this, but it's becoming essential for our sanity nowadays to really get grounded. Stay relaxed, laugh if you can. 

0:42:23 - Speaker 2
And just one more question the quantum jumping. Is it something that you have to intentionally do, or does it happen? And if it just happens all the time, can you intentionally stop it, so you can just kind of have that one reality? 

0:42:35 - Speaker 3
The way I use the terminology I've seen. Back in the 1990s I was calling it reality shifting, when it was a random thing that just happened, like a Mandela effect, and then later I worked with the term quantum jump to indicate this is something intentional. And I like to use caution when doing intentional quantum jumps, because we might think we're doing something that we think we want, but really make sure it's lined up with your heart, lined up with what you actually need and don't get anything that you don't actually need, because this really is a spiritual practice and you are impacting much more than what we realize. It's huge. 

0:43:11 - Speaker 1
That's a great point. So should we just be happy with what we've got rather than try to make things happen? 

0:43:17 - Speaker 3
I would recommend just keep asking how good can it get and how good can I get? And really bring this idea of optimalism into your life, because we know what it is subconsciously and we know what we need and it kind of helps you relax and then suddenly things aren't so hard or difficult. I mean, it might seem difficult but you can relax at least so that they can trust in that faith that there's something, that there's a higher order going on, that there's some connection happening and that there's a higher level of conscious agency working in favor for all of us. 

0:43:52 - Speaker 1
I found my new mantra how good can it be, how good can it get? That is fantastic. That's such a great way to look at life. That's exactly. I'm going to be saying it all the time, Karen how good can it get? 

0:44:05 - Speaker 2
That's fantastic. Thank you, it is great. 

0:44:07 - Speaker 1
We are willfully out of time. This has been a fantastic conversation. Is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you want to make sure that everyone listening gets. 

0:44:17 - Speaker 3
Just to remember that you're much more important and significant and the thoughts that you're having, the feelings you're having, definitely are having a very powerful effect. I would definitely recommend start each day with that question how good can it get? Ask it, no matter how you're feeling, no matter what's going on, even if it seems sarcastic, say it anyway. Challenge the cosmos. We're in a participatory universe and you'll definitely get a good answer when you ask a good question. Keep asking the questions that you most want to live, the answers to. 

0:44:49 - Speaker 1
That's excellent oh. 

I like that. Yeah, you heard it first here. If you want to reach out to us, we'd love to hear how good can the show get. So let us know what you'd like to hear. Of course, cynthia, we're going to add all the links to your website, your social media, all that kind of stuff, on our show notes. All you need to do is go to skepticmanavpositioncom and you'll find her links directly laid into her episode. So don't delay, reach out to her, because this was absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing of this wisdom and information and mind-altering thought processes, because you know, karen and I have been thinking about this for a long time. 

0:45:29 - Speaker 2
Not a long time. 

0:45:31 - Speaker 3
Thank you so, so much. It was such a pleasure. I love talking with you both. 

0:45:36 - Speaker 1
Likewise and Karen. We got some explaining to do. 

0:45:40 - Speaker 2
And I'm going to be Googling kidneys. 

0:45:42 - Speaker 1
All right, thanks again, and a huge thank you to you yes, you the person that hit play on this episode. We know that there are tons of options out there, and having you decide to come along on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us. We hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have. We'd love for you to contribute by sending us a voicemail or an email from our website, or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or any other podcasting platform that supports them. Karen and I love hearing from those that are moved to message us. It truly does fuel our passion. You are the reason we do this show, and knowing what you like and don't like help us craft the very best show we can, so that we can help raise the vibration of the planet together. Well, that's all for now. We will see you on the next episode of the Skeptic Manifestations. Until then, take care.