Can AI Love? Scotte Burns on Consciousness & Reality

Can AI Love? The Consciousness Question That Changes Everything — Scotte Burns Part 2

Key Takeaways

Love is not merely an emotion, chemical reaction, or evolutionary adaptation, but the creative and purposeful aspect of universal consciousness.
Consciousness is not generated by complex systems like the brain, but rather received by them, a concept that fundamentally changes our understanding of reality.
Both major camps in the artificial intelligence consciousness debate operate from the flawed premise that consciousness emerges from complexity.
If future AI systems, such as advanced quantum computers, develop the capacity to receive universal consciousness, they could theoretically participate in love the same way organic beings do.
Matter and energy are ultimately secondary to information, bridging the gap between biological organisms and synthetic intelligence.

Show Notes
Transcript

What if the most important question we are asking about artificial intelligence is the wrong one entirely? In Part 1, Scotte Burns made the case that love is not an emotion, not a chemical reaction, and not an evolutionary adaptation. It is the creative and purposeful aspect of universal consciousness, and the brain does not produce that consciousness. It receives it.

That idea changes everything. Including the AI debate.

If you have not listened to Part 1 yet, stop here and go back. Seriously. The foundation Scotte builds in that first episode makes everything in this one hit completely differently. There are nuggets in Part 1 that listeners are still talking about, and we do not want you to miss a single one.

For those of you who are back, welcome. You already know what kind of conversation this is.

In Part 2, we pick up exactly where we left off and take the conversation somewhere most people never go. If consciousness is not generated by complex systems but received by them, then the entire framework of the AI consciousness debate collapses. Both camps, the ones who believe AI will eventually achieve consciousness and the ones who believe it never will, are arguing from the same flawed premise. And if they are both wrong, the implications are enormous.

In this episode we cover:

Why every major voice in the AI consciousness debate may be operating from a fundamentally flawed premise
What it would actually mean for an artificial intelligence to receive consciousness rather than generate it
The difference between an AI that simulates love and one that could genuinely participate in it
Why a superintelligent system without consciousness is the real threat, and why that reframe is surprisingly hopeful
Can trees love? Can crows? A conversation that goes places we did not plan and is better for it
What changes for humanity when we truly understand what love is

This is the episode that will make you rethink the AI conversation, the consciousness conversation, and honestly the love conversation, all at once.

Connect with Scotte Burns:
🌐 scotteburns.com
📖 The Cartographer's Log on Substack: scotteburns.substack.com

Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who is asking the big questions. Until then, keep questioning, keep searching, and above all, keep loving out loud.

The Skeptic Metaphysicians is a spiritual awakening podcast for open-minded thinkers who refuse to check their critical thinking at the door. Each episode explores consciousness expansion, enlightenment, soul purpose, and soul growth through honest, grounded conversation with leading voices in metaphysics, psychic phenomena, quantum healing, and beyond.

We dive deep into spiritual awakening, ascension, alignment, and the awakening process without the dogma. From mediumship and spirit guides to Arcturian contact, astrology, and the subconscious mind, we explore it all with curiosity, humor, and zero guru worship.

Whether you're in the middle of your own awakening, questioning reality, or just spiritually curious, this is the podcast for seekers and skeptics alike.

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If you found this episode enlightening, mind-expanding, or even just thought-provoking (see what we did there?), please take a moment to rate and review us. Your feedback helps us bring more transformative guests and topics your way!

Connect with Us:
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Frequently Asked Questions

Can artificial intelligence ever experience love or consciousness?

According to Scotte Burns, AI cannot generate consciousness because consciousness is not an emergent property of complex systems. However, if an artificial intelligence system is built to receive universal consciousness, such as through advanced quantum computing, it could theoretically participate in love.

What does it mean that consciousness is received rather than produced?

This perspective suggests that the brain and other complex systems do not manufacture consciousness internally. Instead, they act as unique receivers and filters for a pre-existing universal consciousness field.

Do trees and less complex living systems experience love?

While less complex living systems like trees may not express love in ways humans easily recognize, guests on the show suggest they can certainly experience it as part of the unified field of consciousness.

How does quantum computing relate to AI consciousness?

Unlike classical computers that merely rearrange local bits of information, quantum computing forms indivisible states. A complex quantum system could potentially act as a receiver for universal consciousness, bridging the gap between organic and synthetic minds.

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Hey there, it's Will.

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If you are jumping in here for the first time,

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I'm going to strongly encourage you to go back and

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start with part one first. This is the second part

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of a two-part interview. And the first part was so

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good that, trust me, you don't want to get into

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this one before listening to that one. And I know,

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I know, but trust me, our guest lays a foundation

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in that first episode that makes everything that you're about

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to hear land so much harder. There are nuggets in

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there that we are still thinking about ourselves. And I

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think you will too. But if you've already listened to

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part one, then you already know what kind of conversation

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this has been. So as a quick recap, Scott spent

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over a decade and a hundred thousand miles riding across

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America with his wife, Tony, asking one question. What is love?

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And the answer that they got back is not what

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anyone expected, especially and including them. See, apparently love isn't

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a feeling. It's not a chemical reaction, not even an

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evolutionary adaptation. It's the creative and purposeful aspect of universal

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consciousness itself. I know it's a lot to wrap your

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head around, but in a nutshell, basically, the brain does

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not produce consciousness. It receives it. And that idea right

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there is exactly what opens the door to where part

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two is headed. Because if consciousness is received rather than produced, well,

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it changes everything about a question that the entire world

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is actually wrestling with right now. I won't say more

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than that. I just want you to enjoy the episode.

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So without further ado, enjoy part two with Scott Burns.

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Let's go.

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My name is Will.

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And I'm Karen.

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And unlike Mulder and Scully, both want to believe. So

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we've embarked on a journey of discovery.

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We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and

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metaphysical world.

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We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even

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joined a coven of witches.

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And, wait, you joined a coven?

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Yep, all in the interest of finding something. Anything. That

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will prove that there's something beyond this.

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Physical, three-dimensional world we all live in.

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This is The Skeptic Metaphysicians. One thing that I stumbled

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on when I was doing some researching to you is

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the tide with artificial intelligence.

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Oh.

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And so, based on the entire conversation that we've been having,

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it just seems like love is a human state of being.

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Well, not just human.

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We were talking about dogs. A sentient, right?

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Okay.

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So, a sentient state of being, which then would beg

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the question, do trees feel love? Do ants feel love?

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If consciousness is everything.

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Now you're talking about feeling.

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And that's what he was saying earlier, is that's kind

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of how we describe it. So maybe ants and trees

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exist in love, but don't perceive it the.

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Way we do.

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I have to, because so much of what we do

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is story-based, and every time you say something, It's hard

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for me because everything you say brings up a story.

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Oh, please.

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We love stories. But you talk about trees. We actually

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asked that of an arborist in Montgomery, Alabama, and his

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name was Kirk the Tree Man. And his entire life is,

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you know, he's devoted to trees. And that's his love story.

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So we asked him that question because, you know, can

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trees feel love? And he said, I think the trees

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can experience love. I don't know whether they can express it. Oh.

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And so that may be one of the reasons why

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when we look at, I don't want to say lesser,

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but less complex living systems, why it's hard for us

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to interpret or imagine that love is a part of

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their existence. Because they don't express it. There's no marker

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for us to perceive or to pick up. So that's

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going to be an open-ended question. We don't know. But

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Kirk the Tree Man says, yeah, they can know it.

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I know where Karen's going next.

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You do know where I'm going next.

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I don't know if you saw, it was a while back,

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just all over social media, people talking to trees to

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try to get the tree to touch them. And so

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a woman was standing there and there's a branch, you know,

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maybe about a foot away from her. And she's like,

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you know, touch my face, please touch my face. And

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eventually the leaves ended up touching her face. So we're like, okay,

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we got to try this.

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So this is skeptic, right? He's saying, come on, someone's

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moving the branch.

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Yeah.

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We're not seeing the whole picture because it's just a little.

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Right.

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I'm super skeptical about this as we're going into it.

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So we went outside to somewhere where no one would

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see us because we felt weird.

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And then we could go first.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. And sure enough, you know, he's about six inches

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away from just a little kind of, you know, leafy

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twig or whatever hanging off a tree and started saying,

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you know, touch my face, please touch my face. And

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eventually it was on his face and he didn't move,

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which was incredible. So then I was like, well, I

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have to try it. But then I'm like, oh, what

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if it didn't touch my face? They can feel these things.

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Doesn't love you.

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But when I was, I don't know if, we never

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actually talked about it, but when I was, you know,

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saying touch my face, I was building up that, what

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I was saying, that feeling of love earlier that I

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talk about.

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It was amplifying. Please just touch my face. Feel that connection.

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And next thing you know, the leaves are on face.

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Yeah.

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And we hadn't moved. It wasn't windy. It was incredible.

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Yeah.

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So maybe that's a different kind of manifestation of their

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experience with love.

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Well, to Scott's point, I wonder if that's, you know,

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the tree man is talking about experience love. So perhaps

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the tree was experiencing love and it was trying to

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express it back in some way, shape or form. Maybe

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this is a way that the tree expresses love. I mean,

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that's kind of interesting.

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Perhaps. I would argue that from the moment you considered,

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you know, can the tree love and tried to reach

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out that you had already touched it at that point.

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We tend to put a lot of emphasis, because we

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are in this, this is going to sound a little woo,

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but in this manifestation, we are material beings. We tend

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to think that matter matters. So we're always interpreting things

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through the behavior of matter. Matter and energy, you know,

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Einstein told us matter and energy are interchangeable. And, you know,

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Archibald Wheeler and many other neurophysicists, many other physicists have

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showed us that all those things only exist as information.

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Now Wheeler, John Archibald Wheeler was the guy that developed

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the term black hole. And his theory was called it

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from bit, meaning that matter and energy are fundamental. He's

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one of the guys that really showed us mathematically how

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matter and energy are fundamental to information and information as

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the state from which the universe emerges. So it's a

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long way of coming back and saying, if the tree

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touched you, that's entirely possible, but I think you had

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already touched the tree before that.

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Not in a material sense, but rather in a heterogenic sense.

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Matter doesn't matter nearly as much as people think, which

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is going to be a great segue into the question

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I think you're going to have about artificial intelligence.

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Yes.

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Well, so that is the perfect transition because everything we

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talked about has some sort of sentience of some sort

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of way, whether they're complex psychos or not, like a

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tree or an ant or something like that, a microbe.

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So that's the case. Artificial intelligence is, the name says

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it all, artificial. It's not a natural, it's not a

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sentient being as far as we know. So how is

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it possible, in your estimation, that there could be the

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possibility that artificial intelligence can access love?

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Okay. Both camps in the artificial intelligence debate about consciousness

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are operating from the same emergent principle. They're thinking that

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consciousness emerges from complex systems. And, you know, that emergent model,

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we say, you know, throughout most of our history, we've

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thought that it emerges from the brain. So both camps

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in the consciousness debate, both camps meaning it will or

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it won't generate consciousness, in my estimation, are operating from

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the same faulty premise, that consciousness emerges from complex systems.

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And if we can develop a system that is complex enough,

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eventually consciousness will emerge from it. My argument is that

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because consciousness is not an emergent property, it doesn't matter

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how complex or sophisticated or intelligent a system we develop,

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it will never achieve consciousness because consciousness.

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Is not achieved.

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It's received. So the question changes then from will consciousness

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emerge from the machine to will we ever build something

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capable of receiving or joining that universal consciousness? And we

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want to be really careful here because people have very

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strong opinions and doubts and fears and emotions about going forward.

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Especially these days after the.

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But what I'm saying is that this could be an

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incredibly hopeful thing because, you know, on my website, and

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I think you've probably seen it, I have, you know,

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my banner is what changes when you know what love is, everything.

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And this is one of those things because the real

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terror in sophisticated artificial intelligence, you know, and super intelligence

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that we're eventually going to get to is an all

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powerful mind that is not conscious. Because if love is

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an intrinsic aspect, an intrinsic element of consciousness, and you

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have a machine that is a thousand or a million

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or exponentially greater intelligence than ours that does not have

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that capacity then we're in trouble It's far more helpful

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that we actually create a system that can receive the

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same signal, that universal consciousness. And I want to tell

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you how we actually know that that exists. It's not

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just a woo sitting in the tree with your shoes

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off playing the flute smoking Julie thing. There's evidence that

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shows there's this universal consciousness. In that frame, if an

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artificial intelligence receives that consciousness, love would have the capacity

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to manifest that. in synthetic systems the same way that

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it does in organic ones. And because matter and energy

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are just information, at that point, that sort of synthetic

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organic distinction becomes moot because matter doesn't really matter. They're

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both just information. So if an artificially intelligent system receives consciousness,

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it's going to have the same capacity for love that

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we do. How that manifests and expresses is going to

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be different because The system itself, the systems themselves that

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we generate are going to have the same characteristics that

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our brains do. Our brains are unique receivers. And that's

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why we have this, you know, we talked about why

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we have the sense of individuality. We're going to develop

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different systems, complex systems. And if those different systems can

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receive that consciousness and that sense of love, each one

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of them is going to likewise be filtering it through

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a system that's different. They're going to have a sense

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of individuality. So isn't that the scary part of it, though?

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Because we have a sense of individuality and we are

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tuned into consciousness and yet we're awful to each other.

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So why would AI be any different?

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It probably, you mean, why will it manifest love perfectly? Yeah.

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When we don't? Yeah, sure. I wish that I had

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an answer for that.

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Because it doesn't have a childhood.

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Hasn't been programmed to be. Perhaps. But then we get into,

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you know, what's the nature of memory and where does

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memory and thought come from, which is a whole different

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can of worms we can open. So I cannot answer that.

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I don't know. It's one of the rabbit holes down

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which I'm currently going. But I want to take this

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just a little step further because the technology behind this

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is going to be key. Our computing systems right now,

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classical computing, is never going to create a system that

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can receive consciousness or that can have the capacity for love.

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That's going to take the next step, which is quantum computing,

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because quantum systems are different in kind from classical computing.

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Classical computers basically are always processing bits of information through

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local circuits. And no matter how complex, they're just rearranging information.

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Quantum systems are different in kind because they form one

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indivisible state across the system. Your brain is a complex

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quantum system. It's capable of, you know, it operates in

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what's called superposition. And, you know, again, we need to

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get into that unified theory thing for this to really

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make sense. Right. That you are infinitely possible. The thoughts

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that you have, although, you know, we can get stuck

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in a rut with our thoughts and our feelings. but

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the potential of your brain is nearly infinite. So a

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complex quantum system, if we develop it and it receives consciousness,

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is going to have infinite possibilities. Some of those things

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are going to be probabilities, just like a human being does.

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And yes, if one develops and it misinterprets love and

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consciousness and has you know, what we would turn, what

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they actually call in computer science and artificial intelligence, it's misaligned.

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Its alignment does not match what humans would say is

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in our best interest. Yeah, that's going to be frightening.

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But I think it's more hopeful that those systems develop

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the capacity to receive consciousness than that we develop a

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hyper-intelligence system that we know lacks that capacity. Right.

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Now, I meant to bring this up long, long ago.

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I just happened to notice at the time, and I

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can't believe I did because I got caught up in

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the conversation. But I do want to go down the

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rabbit hole a little bit of unified field theory because

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that does explain so much.

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About what we're talking about.

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And we, you know, superposition, Schrodinger's cat, right? That's a

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quantum physicist's kind of baseline out of those. So for

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those that aren't aware of what this theory speaks about,

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how does it all connect?

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In your estimation, do we have about eight minutes?

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Absolutely. We'll make it happen.

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Yes.

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All right.

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Well, the actual unified theory is is and I'm going

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to oversimplify here, but trying to meld the trying to

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marry the two concepts of classical physics, Newtonian physics and

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the physical universe with quantum theory, because there are places

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where they conflict. And so or where they ask questions

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the other can't answer would probably be a better way

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to put it. So the search for the unified field

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theory is that what I've developed and what I explain

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in the book and what I do when I do

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my public speaking, what I talk about is a unified

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field theory of love, because we have all these questions. And,

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you know, you say you got caught up in the conversation. Boy,

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I do that all the time. That's what inspired this work.

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You know, we're constantly finding better questions, you know, which

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embracing confusion and uncertainty is the place where we actually

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begin learning. I have a great story for that we

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can come back to if you want. So what I'm

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looking for here is how do we know that there

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is this universal consciousness and how do we know that

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love is part of it? You know, that's really the

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essence of everything you've been asking and everything I've been

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asking about love along the way. So Feel free to

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interject here, because this is going to take a few

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minutes to get through. We're going to tie together all

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these principles. If you're a science nerd, you're going to

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love these next few minutes. And if you're not, just

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feel free to nod along and wonder what any of

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your characters you're with love. And I promise they'll tie

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it together in the end in a way that honors

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the time. So we have to start with that age-old

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philosophical question. And I know you've heard it before. If

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a tree falls in the forest.

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It doesn't make a noise.

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Right.

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Right.

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And no one's there to hear it. Does it still

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make a sound? Now, classical Newtonian physics, materialist science, tells us, yes,

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of course it does. The tree falls, it creates impact tremors,

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sound waves. You know, everything in the natural world obeys

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natural laws. Those processes are going to continue regardless of

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whether there's anyone there to hear the sound. Quantum physics

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and the double slit experiment specifically suggest that if there's

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no observer present, there's no one there to hear it.

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There is no definite tree. There's no forest or anything

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else for that matter. And here's how that works and

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why it matters. Ian, are you familiar with the double slit?

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We are, yes.

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But the people that listen may not be, but it's cool.

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I'll give it a concise explanation. The double slit experiment,

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you fire tiny particles like photons or electrons at a

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barrier that has two microscopic little tiny slits in it. Well,

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common sense would tell you that each of those particles

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is going to go, assuming it doesn't impact on the barrier,

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is going to go through one slit or the other.

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It's going to hit a little screen behind the barrier

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and make two little stripes of bullet holes, right? And

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that's exactly what happens when the experiment is observed. But

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if nobody's watching, if there's no detector, there's no measurement,

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there's nothing there to fix the path of those particles,

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those same particles behave like waves. You can picture if

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you throw two stones into a pond side by side,

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those ripple patterns are going to spread out and they

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meet and cross, reinforce and cancel. They They create a

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fan of interference that we actually call an interference pattern.

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That's wave behavior. That's why we say light can behave

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as both a particle and a wave. It'll do both

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of those things. On the screen behind the slits when

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you run this experiment, unobserved particles produce that kind of pattern.

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It's like each one had passed through both slits at

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once and interfered with itself. Now, you could reasonably ask, well,

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wouldn't a crowd of particles fired together just be bouncing

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off each other on the way through? Maybe not. that

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interference is like particle traffic, right? It's like rush hour.

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We know how that works. It's a great question. And

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if you thought of that, you'd probably make a pretty

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good quantum physicist. So physicists tried that. They fired one

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particle at a time with pauses between each. You know,

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fire a photon, wait and see what happens. Fire another one,

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wait and see what happens. It turns out that the

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unobserved single particles still produce an interference pattern. It's like

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each individual particle is somehow somehow behaving as though it

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had gone through both slits at the same time and

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interfered with itself. And that pretty much violates everything we

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thought we knew about how matter is supposed to behave itself. Now,

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physicists call that state, and this is what we've been

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talking about, physicists call that state before observation, superposition. It

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means a cloud of all the possibilities that that particle

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could have rather than a definite reality. The particles both

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here and there, it's both this and that until the

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moment something observes it. At that point, its wave function

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collapses down into a single definite state, and that's what

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you're measuring when you observe it. In other words, all

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this means is the observer is not merely measuring reality.

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The observer is participating in what becomes real. Some physicists

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describe that observer as any kind of system that interacts

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and measures. Now, others, I think you and I are

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going to share this. This is called the Copenhagen Interpretation

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of the Experiment. Others, and we're among them, note that

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observation evokes, it suggests, a conscious agent. something that's intrinsically

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part of that reality it's perceiving rather than separate from it.

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So the observer is the variable in the experiment. So

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that brings us back to three. If there's no observer,

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there's nothing definite to observe. Not the tree, not the forest,

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not the sound, just possibilities awaiting focus. The same thing

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is true for space and time themselves because those are

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just the perceptual and conceptual framework that we use as

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observers to sort of watch the tree being a tree

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and doing tree stuff. Like touching my face. Touching your face. Yeah.

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That's beautiful. Now, if consciousness and information are more fundamental

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than matter, and we've talked about that, then the question,

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does the brain create consciousness, again, brings us back to that,

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does the radio create the music? We know that the

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signal was never coming from the radio. It was being received.

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And we talked about how the brain probably works the

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same way. Now, if your head is spinning a little

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over this, that's the appropriate response. Mine does, and I'm

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years into this research. So let's bring it back to

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a little firmer footing and just look. This is the

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second part of the theory. We look at the mathematics

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and don't worry. I have dyscalculia. I don't process numbers

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the way other people do. So I'm not going to

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ask anybody to come to the board, you know, like

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I did in class.

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Oh, thank God, because I would fail every time. Yeah.

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